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Thread: Vaping...More harm then good? For me yes...Im done!!!!!!

  1. #61
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    Earl, get back to us when you figure it out.

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    I haven't read every post in the thread so forgive me if this has been stated already, but as for the breathing problems after switching to ecigs -- when we smoke it destroys or puts to "Sleep" the cilia in the lining of our respiratory tracts. After not inhaling smoke for a bit, it will begin to regrow. It's job is to filter out our lungs. Usually there will be years of junk that hasn't been filtered, so when they do start to grow back we can tell by our need to cough up phlegm and junk. Sometimes this will feel like we can't breathe and we cough and cough up stuff. Also, an underlying asthma could have been unknown because of the effects of smoking to the cilia all those years you were a smoker.

    Secondly, I've read that vaping can cause dehydration - and dehydration definitely causes muscle cramping. I'd go to a DR. and have him check my lungs (COPD or Asthma?) and also I'd drink lots and lots of water to see if that helps the cramping.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by earlfleetwood View Post
    Everything you have posted has a spin on it. People are having negative effects from vaping. You are trying to say it is something else, or that it isn't common. Hey, it actually is! Some chose to post, some quit and go away and some work through it. I get horrible headaches. Not from withdrawl, not from too much or too little nicotine, most likely from PG. Are ECigs safer than traditional cigarettes? No doubt in my mind. Am I having an adverse reation to PG, yup!! PG is a nasty chemical. You can talk it up that its FDA approved all you want, it was approved many many years ago. It would never get approved now, but is too much part of society. That being said, we are inhaling it! I will try straight VG. The jury is still out, and I guess we will all figure it out. But, Kristin, until you can put a report in my hand that says that it is safe, that was not paid for by someone that is associated with ecigs, you are no authority. At least we all know tobacco isn't safe, we truely don't know what ecigs are at this point. 5 years from now, we could all have lung cancer because PG is more toxic than they knew, because up to this point, when has anyone ever inhaled this much on a daily basis??? Never!!
    Until you can show me irrefutable proof that 99% of the symptoms and "side effects" mentioned in this forum AREN'T associated with quitting smoking, mild dehydration or a PG allergy, then I have no reason to believe that ANY of it was caused by vaping. Your "PG headache" is most likely a PG allergy or dehydration. KNOWN symptoms of vaping. I never said it wasn't associated with vaping - just that most are mild symptoms that can be easily solved and SERIOUS symptoms have not yet been confirmed in any way. I have no problems with people talking about the mild side effects - there are threads stickied in this forum covering those and those are no secret, nor should they be. I'm talking about claims of SERIOUS side effects - such as claimed lung and heart problems.

    I have yet to see a vaper come on here, list the potentially serious side effects - or ANY side effects - and not have them go away after the "just quit smoking stage," increasing fluid intake or switching to VG. Not ONE has gone to their doctor and come back to report that vaping was conclusively the cause of their symptoms - it's always been something completely unrelated or due to dehydration, quitting smoking or PG allergy. Yet people keep insisting that ALL of their symptoms are 100% related to vaping and are "serious" without even eliminating the usual suspects. Even your comment above - "MOST LIKELY from PG." The fact of the matter is YOU HAVE NO PROOF that it is a SERIOUS side effect. Even if it IS the PG, it's been acknowledged all over this site - including myself - that PG has mild adverse effects on SOME people. No one has denied that. Have you quit using PG or started drinking more fluids in order to determine that the PG is causing the headaches? No, you just ASSUME and tell people that vaping causes headaches - without further explanation that is could be a PG allergy or dehydration causing the headaches. YES, it's vaping related, but hardly serious and easily corrected.

    I have NOTHING to be ashamed of. Just as we expect the anti-ecig folks to prove their claims about ecigs based on SCIENCE AND FACT, I expect vapers to do the same when claiming their ills are from vaping. If someone can show me vapers who had major side effects AFTER the "just quit smoking" stage, went to their doctor and the doctor told them it was directly linked to something in e-cigarettes and the symptoms went away after they quit vaping and they didn't go back to smoking, THEN I would call that a valid concern that should be told to vapers. But to announce every little ache and pain and typical post-smoking symptoms, dehydration or PG allergies as MAJOR concerns to vapers is irresponsible and as much junk science as those who claim people will drop dead of a heart attack from one whiff of our "second hand vapor."

    I don't know where you get that propylene glycol is "nasty stuff." I think you are mistaking it with ethylene glycol or diethylene glycol. PG is added to anti-freeze to make it LESS TOXIC. It's in a ton of food we eat and medicines and aerosols we use. The chances that something as benign as PG causing worse health effects than smoking are next to none. It's being "a part of society" has nothing to do with it. If it were really so nasty, it would go bye-bye like they did with sacchrin and ephedra. Oh, but guess what? People attributing every little symptom they had to sacchrin got it banned. Knee-jerk reaction to a perfectly safe ingredient and not SCIENCE - hence why it is now deemed safe again. Actual SCIENCE AND FACT showed that the only thing people had to fear from it was their own imaginations. I don't want to see the same thing happen to e-cigarettes.

    Before I get flamed for trying to "cover up" anything negative about ecigs - I will say this one final time - VAPING IS NOT SAFE FOR EVERYONE, THERE ARE MINOR SIDE EFFECTS KNOWN AND VAPERS NEED TO BE INFORMED OF REAL AND PROVEN SERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS OF VAPING.

    I am NOT claiming vaping is safe for everyone or that there are NO side effects - I keep saying that but people don't hear that. Some people will NOT be able to tolerate certain ingredients, whether it be the artificial flavors or the PG/VG. I have never claimed nor will I ever claim vaping is for everyone and perfectly safe. However, if there is a side effect reported, I want to know it for FACT and not just conjecture and I want to know it is a SERIOUS side effect and not something that could easily be solved by drinking more water or switching to VG - those are already well known and covered on this forum.

    I also want to reiterate that while I believe that vaping is a 100% better alternative to smoking, what I mean is that ANYTHING is a better alternative to smoking. But e-cigs may not always the best option of the available alternatives for everyone. Someone may be better off using snus or disolvables or even perscription nicotine replacements or drugs - especially those with pre-existing lung diseases.

    I invite anyone who has had serious symptoms (not known effects like dry throat or constipation) 3+ months after completely quitting smoking, who has eliminated PG allergy and dehydration as the source, quit vaping and NOT gone back to smoking and had their symptoms go away to contact me. Or someone who has had their doctor conclusively diagnose e-cigarette use as the cause of their SERIOUS symptoms. If anyone can show me vapers who have conclusively linked their vaping to serious symptoms, I will write an article about it and put it up on CASAA.org (with board permission, of course.) Because I believe vapers should ABSOLUTELY know about ADDITIONAL side effects not already known to be linked to dehydration, PG allergy or quitting smoking.

    What I don't believe in is announcing to the world that e-cigarettes caused you major health effects when you haven't even eliminated the most basic causes or even seen a doctor. By all means, announce major side effects, but please do it AFTER you have eliminated the other possibilities and quit vaping and found the symptoms went away - so you can at least CONCLUSIVELY link the symptoms to vaping.

    Disclaimer: Comments made are my own personal opinion and not an official CASAA opinion.
    Last edited by kristin; 12-23-2010 at 07:32 PM.

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    Fair enough, and thank you for the post!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by THE View Post
    ...

    Great video!



    The problem I have with the OP is simply the fact that almost every post relating to the ils, side effects, or adverse symptoms of vaping seem to be very similar to those associated with quitting tobacco cold turkey or are simply the eventual results from smoking. While you're young, you can cope with minor damage. As you age, those things that used to be minor start becoming significant. How you treat your body now can effect your health 10 years down the road. If you quit smoking 8 years ago, you can still expect your body to pay a price.

    These types of posts also have a tendancy to be misinterpreted by new vapers as implying vaping and smoking have the same risks. Vaping has saved my wife and I from smoking. Several of my family members and friends have also switched to vaping and some have gone on to quit nicotine altogether.

    My fear is that anyone reading these unsubstantiated opinions may view them as "evidence" to stay clear of vaping and try other unsuccessful cessation programs or worse, continue smoking.

    Very few of these vaping "sufferers" actually seem to get a doctor's opinion (which seems to make me believe the posters don't really think the symptoms are nearly as serious as they claim) and, on top of that, for some strange reason, almost all of them forget that they smoked daily doses of poison for a large number of years.

    For anyone to put vaping and smoking in the same category of risk is just an example of good old-fashioned conjecture.

    The jury is still way out on that one and until we have people who have vaped for ten or more years, I imagine the jury will still be out for a long time to come.

    Go to a doctor and get checked out. This is something everyone should do with any tobacco cessation/reduction program.

    I've had my questionable symptoms checked out by my doctor 3 times since I quit smoking and started vaping. Everything checked out perfectly including a recent EKG. My bloodwork, blood pressure, and lungs improved (though I also changed my diet so, I don't jump to the conclusion that vaping made me healthier).

    I'm not saying people won't have side effects or adverse reactions from vaping (for example; some people are allergic to peanuts).

    But, I really hate "the-sky-is-falling" sort of posts without actually getting something concrete to substantiate vaping as the actual culprit.


    I don't mind people posting their symptoms, but honestly, get some collaboration before pointing a finger at probably the single best cessation program I've ever used.
    Last edited by anim8r; 12-25-2010 at 07:03 AM.
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    Well said anim8r. You can basically google your symptoms and smoking and find pages describing them. I had a lot of gum bleeding after I stopped smoking and when I went for my exam brought it up to the dentist. He said blood flow is constricted when you smoke and it was normal to see bleeding after quiting. He also said there was normal type bleeding during the cleaning and my gums looked better (whether that was true or reinforcement for staying off cigarettes, I'm not positive).

    After I posted that, someone came back and positively stated that the bleeding came from E liquid. Like everyone else, I'd like to have a better understanding of health risks associated with vaping, but having smoked 43 years, I'm not in a position to become a health fanatic at this point. There are a lot of changes that take place after quiting smoking, there are a lot of changes that take place as you get older. Trying to draw conclusions about health issues today because you started vaping so many days or months ago without a medical opinion is not the ideal. Side effects are basically a fact of life in everything you do, serious side effects are another issue and should be addressed by a doctor.
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    Congrats on your new journey without cigs or ecigs, I wish you the best of luck!
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    Not to scare you but my dad had the same symptoms as you are having. Did smoke but quit using patches. Never vaped in his life. He went to the doctor only to find out he had to have triple by-pass surgery. Please see your doctor.
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    Vaping is 1000 times safer than smoking, but no one has ever claimed it is 100% safe. What's with all the censorship on ECF lately? Let Laguna share his stories, GEEZ! I've been vaping over a year and I have a side effect that I haven't been able to pin point the cause of. Since I started vaping I've been "losing" my breath when drifting off to sleep and jump up gasping for air. It's not apnea, I don't do it all night. In fact, if I don't vape an hour before bed, I don't do it at all. I had thought it was Caramel, because I did this a lot when vaping caramel, but it was only because I couldn't put down caramel . I've read on other forums of others having this same issue, so it isn't just me. There are many unknowns in e- liquid and I'm trying different PG/VG combinations to find what works for me and remedies this problem, because I don't want to ever be a smoker again, but it's getting really annoying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warbdan View Post
    Vaping is 1000 times safer than smoking, but no one has ever claimed it is 100% safe. What's with all the censorship on ECF lately? Let Laguna share his stories, GEEZ!.......
    Here's what created the OP-

    "In the last year, i have gone through FOUR inhalers, due to not being able to breath properly. I have never in my life needed one of those things until vaping. I am 37 years old! I was a 21 year, pack a day smoker. Looking back in hindsight, i felt much better when i was smoking analogs... let me explain:

    Aside from the not being able to breath properly, i have experienced terrible muscle cramping, pain in my lower kidney area, as well as periodic hot flashes where my face feels like it is on fire! No, i havent gone to the doctor yet for the above. Now that i am done with vaping, im pretty sure these symptoms will subside. If not, i will definitely get checked out. Not to mention the added anxiety (mild panic attacks) vaping has brought me."

    Now I hate to be a bearer of bad news but smoking a pack a day for 21 years has definitely raised heath concerns and I smoked twice as long as that and many more cigarettes. If you read the 2006 CDC report, ex-smokers (anyone smoking more than 99 cigs in their lifetime) are three times as likely to develop cancer than CURRENT smokers. Why? nobody addressed that issue but I suppose some quit when they start having issues with smoking that go undiagnosed until the symptoms get worse.

    Here we have a post about symptoms with a claim that vaping caused them, but no trip to a doctor to verify. The poster would have served the community better by having his issues checked out. Heck, he would have served himself better by having them checked out. If I was going through inhalers, I would have gone to a doc rather than self diagnose.

    I personally now only vape socially so I'm not a good judge of what heavy inhaling of those foreign substances might do to an individual. I do know I had a number of changes taking place in my biology as I ended inhaling 2-3 packs of cigarettes a day for 43 years and I don't deny that at some point I may pay for those 43 years. That was my conscious decision.

    When originally vaping I had no issues that I couldn't attribute to coming off smoke. If I had, and they bothered me, I would have seen a doc. I eventually found Swedish snus which answered most of my needs without inhaling anything foreign regularly which has broken down the hand to mouth issue. As much as I've abused my lungs, I'm just as happy to give them a chance to heal, just my opinion.

    Now I've been snusing for over 10 months and my feet have been bothering me way worse than they ever did before. My balance is way off from where it was when I was smoking so I know that this is happening because of the snus. I've tried different shoe inserts but nothing is improving. I haven't seen a doctor but I know what's causing it so I'm quiting snusing. I'm not trying to alarm others, but it's something that I know is caused by snus.

    You may call questioning the OP censorship, others may consider it asking for sensible-ship.
    Last edited by rothenbj; 12-26-2010 at 05:16 PM.
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