Vegetable glycerine (glycerol) - safety discussion

[Mihai]

Now that I got back home and I finally received all the e-stuff ordered (2 pens, 2 minis, 2 cigars, 1 cigarillo; all kind of e-liquids) I wanted to start mixing my own stuff. Sadly, in the process, I found out something pretty bad about VG.

You should stop vaping VG now! It's not some theoretical hazard. The first chemist I asked about buying VG for smoking told me instantly I am crazy.

Heated at 280 deg C it decomposes to acrolein. This is not a partial decomposition. It also doesn't need any other chemical component or anything, just heat. This is actually one of the ways of obtaining acrolein.
280 deg C is pretty close of what the atomizer gives now.

Now, about acrolein - it was used as a chemical weapon, it is a suspected human carcinogenic and it is associated with hemorrhagic cystitis.

Health risks

Acrolein is a severe pulmonary irritant and lacrimating agent. It has been used as a chemical weapon during World War I. It is, however, not outlawed by the Chemical Weapons Convention. Acrolein is also a metabolite of the chemotherapy drug cyclophosphamide, and is associated with hemorrhagic cystitis. Skin exposure to acrolein causes serious damage. Acrolein concentrations of 2 ppm are immediately harmful. Acrolein is a suspected human carcinogen.[6] [7] In October 2006, researchers found connections between acrolein in the smoke from tobacco cigarettes and the risk of lung cancer.[8]

(from wiki: Acrolein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)



sorry guys, I wish my first message after the long break would have been much more cheerful


the good part is that about PG they couldn't think of anything yet, they said they need more time to study it, so at least it has no obvious connection with something bad


Again, cause I think it's very important: Stop vaping VG! if you are allergic to PG and you can't quit for good then you better go back to cigarettes than using VG. Cigarette smoke does contain acrolein but tens of thousands times less.

Hmm... after some more thought I started again researching and calculating.
Things are not that bad as I thought, but definitely not good.

ADDITION:

First off, I will edit my original message to remove the stupid ‘start smoking again’ stuff . The chemists were absolutely right about the reaction, but they didn’t realized the scale…

So, let me bore you again with some calculations

In the cigarettes smoke there is a quantity of 60-150 micrograms of acrolein per cigarette (references on demand).
From the dehydration of 1g of glycerol @280 deg you get a theoretical 1g of acrolein. From lab tests it was determined that de pyrolisis of glycerol is incomplete, 40-50% of the glycerol is still present in the vapour (references on demand). So, 1g glycerol gives say 0.6 g of acrolein.

Considering 0.1 g of e-liq == 1 cigarette -> 0.06g = 60 micrograms acrolein per equivalent cigarette, if you vape VG only. A more realistic concentration would be max 50% VG and the rest water, alcohol etc. This gives 30 micrograms acrolein per equivalent cigarette – half the minimum amount of acrolein than is contained in the smoke of an ‘analog’ cigarette.

So, it’s still safer than cigarette smoke… but not too healhy.

Sorry for the alarmistic thread, I tend to first react and then think it’s not the first time it happens.

EDITED TO ADD:

uh, my math skills are failing me. I need to check my results with someone else...
until then I'm back to where I started : I confused somewhere micrograms with milligrams. This means that the acrolein in vapour is 1000 times more than what I said in the edit. this is pretty bad.

Personally, for now, I'll just skip adding glycerine to my mix:


0.1 g of glycol will yield 60 mg acrolein = 60000 micrograms........

[DeviLFisH]

gee
how about this???which I post in another sub forum here.:

I just brought this Glycerin BP is it safe to vapour?as it stated cannot take orally
https://www.mypharmacy.com.sg/ShopFr...6514&CatID=118


gee is it safe to use as it mention cannot take orally

is it GLYCERIN BP

Not to be taken Orally
For external Use Only

this is the company
http://www.icmpharma.com.sg/products/category02.asp

[dnakr]

I recall reading what the temp our atomizers use but can't remember. Anyone know?

[CaSHMeRe]

oy vey ... ...

luckily, I haven't found myself allergic to anything other than bickfords flavorings of PG... Carts and Liquid I seem to be doing fine on!

A PG Allergy is quite damning though ... If there is no replacement, that is really a bummer

[Kate]

Cashmere, I read somewhere that alcohol creates vapour too so you might want to experiment with that at some point. I have vaped neat flavouring with no pg or vg, only alcohol and flavour and there has been vapour produced.

[CaSHMeRe]

Originally Posted by Kate

Cashmere, I read somewhere that alcohol creates vapour too so you might want to experiment with that at some point. I have vaped neat flavouring with no pg or vg, only alcohol and flavour and there has been vapour produced.

Very interesting Kate ... hmmm ...

Lots of vapor or just a little? and were you able to see it both on inhale and exhale?

[DeviLFisH]

Originally Posted by Kate

Cashmere, I read somewhere that alcohol creates vapour too so you might want to experiment with that at some point. I have vaped neat flavouring with no pg or vg, only alcohol and flavour and there has been vapour produced.

hmm I also feel achohol might produce vapour

I got try one baking extract

is made in US as it stated , I believed those US folks here should know this brand?

It call Virginia Dare.

I brought is RUM extract.

the extract contains is as follow :

Water, rum , alcohol(24 %) , Propylene Glycol , natuarl and artifical flavours.


funny of this brand is , Orange extract don;t have Propylene Glycol !???

that why I never choose orange. in order to have vapour u must have PG rite.

[Kate]

I'll just try dripping flavouring neat for a while ... ingredients - vanilla, 38% alcohol and water. I'll report back on my experience with the vapour in a while.

[CaSHMeRe]

Originally Posted by Kate

I'll just try dripping flavouring neat for a while ... ingredients - vanilla, 38% alcohol and water. I'll report back on my experience with the vapour in a while.

Adding higher amounts of alcohol may be good for PG sufferers. I think the biggest issue with PG is the concentration. When used in smaller amounts, people with a reaction may be able to get by like myself

Keep us posted kate. Maybe even try adding 10-20% PG and see if that helps the volume of vapor, etc...

[Nazareth]

280 deg C is pretty close of what the atomizer gives now.

Pretty close? Or exactly? VG doesn't break down until 280 degrees celsius- we need to find out what our atomizers are running at temperature wise.

In October 2006, researchers found connections between acrolein in the smoke from tobacco cigarettes and the risk of lung cancer.[8]

Now you gotta ask yourself, do you want acrolein from real ciggs, or fro ma much healthier Ecigg? You want acrolein with 4000+ chemicals and around 60 other carcinogens fro mreal ciggs? Or from the Ecigg which doesn't have those 4000 chemicals and nearly as many cacinogens?

6 of one, 1/2 dozen of another. Smokers know they are ingesting poisons- the question is do we want a safer way to to cut down on the ingestion? Somethign with far less poisons? Smokers have apaprently been ingesting the poison acrolein for hundreds of years and some living long and fruitful lives regardless. Soem aren't as lucky of course- but we al lknow the risk, and make hte descision to smoke or not, so meh- I'm not too concerned with the report Mihai- Do I wish it didn't break down? Sure- absolutely- but meh- I'm a smoker- I've made my choice, and I'll live with the results of my choice- PG is a great unknown too- but Mahai- Cigarette tobacco has had VG in it for a very long time now- probably not in the quantities edevices do, but we've been getting out fair share of VG as regular cigg smokers none the less for a logn time now.

Shouel we look for safer alternatives? Yup- but I just wouldn't be too cocnerned with the report above as we've already been exposing ourselves to acrolein for many years-