Inhaling Flavouring Chemicals

[SleepHater]

I wrote to Intellicig and asked them what the ingredients were in their eliquid and if they knew about diacetyl. They didn't answer.

I also can't make much sense of the report they've published, it seems to be for three substances or cartridges or something and doesn't have a toxicology report.

Kate, They are including ingredients on the bottle. I have trnsferred to glass and don't have it in front of me but I can state what they have listed tomorrow.

Here is how I approached the report posted by intellicig. I have a BS in Biochem and Molecular Bio so I have spent some time in a lab... So I thought that I would look at the data they provide in a couple of ways.

1. The spectra they generated from a couple different methods of analysis. I thought:

- Is there equiptment capable of providing good results? Yes a 400 mHZ NMR is a serious piece of machinery as well as there mass spectrometer.

- With that is mind how did the data look, i.e how noisy was the spectra from the analysis? Looked good to me, I am not an expert but I have spent my fare share of time starring at this sort of thing wishing I wasn't.

- At the end of the day I'll take there results at face value, the purity of there ingredients is very high and verified by chemical analysis. I also appreciated that they did a analysis of the vapor produced by the e-cig to see if new and unexpected products were produced. Granted further analysis could certainly be done but it was more than I could find on any other fluid.

2. I looked up the Material Safety and Data sheet (MSDS) on the ingredients they tested (and are listed on the bottle).

- I use Sigma Aldrich's web site which allows you to search the chemical and proceed to bore yourself to death

- The MSDS will generally scare the crap out you for anything... If you look at the MSDS for Deionized water, they list a cleanup protocol that requires protective clothing. What do clean up this hazard with whilst donned in protective gear... water, yep. Anyway. The part I am most interested in is where they list the carcinogenic properties of the chemical... and as far as my research has taken me... I have not found one. Ethyl maltol was the one I was worried about:

IARC: No component of this product present at levels greater than or equal to 0.1% is identified as probable, possible or confirmed human carcinogen by IARC.

ACGIH: No component of this product present at levels greater than or equal to 0.1% is identified as a carcinogen or potential carcinogen by ACGIH.

NTP: No component of this product present at levels greater than or equal to 0.1% is identified as a known or anticipated carcinogen by NTP.
OSHA: No component of this product present at levels greater than or equal to 0.1% is identified as a carcinogen or potential carcinogen by OSHA.

I just want to vape the safest e-liquid currently available. I like the KISS approach and that is why I skip the flavoring. I f someone has found a cleaner fluid than this (that is not made in China... sorry but no thanks) please tell me and I will vape that.

Also from intellicig:

Manufacture of the e-liquid is conducted in facilities holding ISO 9002 - BRITISH SAFETY COUNCIL MEMBERS - COMAH (second tier site) - DGSA - ISO 14000 (working towards)

which seems like they are making an effort to produce a safe, healthy product.

All in my very humble opinion. Everyone on this forum has been a great resource for me to learn about all this... hoping I am contributing something back.

Cheers.

[also there are a number of people doing experiements with the fluid... VG degrading to acroline etc... They seem to be the experts, I have to go back to my home town for a clinicla rotation and I still have access to the chemistry department at my former university, I think I will take a day and run the fluid through NMR (they have a 600mHZ, ftIR (including used vs, new attys) GCMS, LCMS etc. generate some data.. but that won't be till summer, pich my old professors brain, she is freaking genius, really Mensa's Mensa, see how she would approach it]

[Kate]

Thanks SleepHater, that's an interesting interpretation.

[exogenesis]

SleepHater, well written & clear.

We would all very much appreciate any 'real instrument time' you could obtain.

I realise you can't promise anything, but it'd be fantastic to get some
truly objective analyses from actual users of these things.

Analysis of the generated vapour itself is the real question...at least in my mind,
which unfortunately adds a bit of a sample-preparation complication.

[SleepHater]

SleepHater, well written & clear.

We would all very much appreciate any 'real instrument time' you could obtain.

I realise you can't promise anything, but it'd be fantastic to get some
truly objective analyses from actual users of these things.

Analysis of the generated vapour itself is the real question...at least in my mind,
which unfortunately adds a bit of a sample-preparation complication.

I welcome any advice on how best to use instrumentation to get the highest yield data. I have been out of the lab (stuck in med school) for 2 years so I have promptly forgotten most of what I used to know. I had a couple of thoughts:

1. Take a new unused atomizer, factory direct so to speak and a well used (even expired) atomizer of the identical type and use ftIR to analyze the difference in the surface compounds. The instrument i would use uses a microscope focus and does solid surface analysis (Thermo Nicolet Nexus 670 FTIR E.S.P., w/Thermo Spectro-Tech Continumm IR Microscope: best of its kind in the north west last I heard) this could give us a spectra, with the new atty as the reference spectra. I used this machine a lot so I can get solid spectrum of the atty's for sure, might help answer some questions to whats built up. However, all i have is ECO w/ EVO. So another sample set would be required for other liquid/atty combinations.


2. Use a negative pressure container to draw and capture vapor: then see if I could get that into the Mass spectrometer and gas chromatograph (if someone is a pro at these let me know and I'll give you the model numbers, if that help, both were HP as best I remeber.

3. I was wondering if using an atomic absorption spectrometer would be useful. I forgotten what this was best for... I think metal purity analysis (?) but that would certainly combust the fluid... if someone knows... fill me in.

I won't be able to do anything until mid july, but any advice prior to that will be much appreciated. I'll only have one shot (a day at most in the instrument lab to do all this) and after that I won't be back there until next winter. So i would like to generate the most usable data possible to make it worth the groveling to my old prof. to let me use there 1,000,000+ instruments to satisfy my e-cig obsession .

[Sun Vaporer]

[also there are a number of people doing experiements with the fluid... VG degrading to acroline etc... They seem to be the experts, I have to go back to my home town for a clinicla rotation and I still have access to the chemistry department at my former university, I think I will take a day and run the fluid through NMR (they have a 600mHZ, ftIR (including used vs, new attys) GCMS, LCMS etc. generate some data.. but that won't be till summer, pich my old professors brain, she is freaking genius, really Mensa's Mensa, see how she would approach it]

SleepHater (great name by the way) --What a great contribution you have made here and we would appretiate it very much if you could indeed put to rest the Acroline issue--thanks again---Sun

[LuckyCharm]

I don't know where you find the time to do all this, but THANKS!

~~Cheryl

[SleepHater]

Just trying to chip in. I think a bunch of us just want to know for sure if we can just happily vape away all day with no worry... I hope we can, I cannot imagine life w/o my EVO. Makes these 20 hour days a little less miserable. Just need those who can to provide good samples to test when the time comes, better sample = better data and hopefully some quantitative answers!

[SleepHater]

I don't know where you find the time to do all this, but THANKS!

~~Cheryl

Hating sleep helps !

[LuckyCharm]

Just need those who can to provide good samples to test when the time comes....

I volunteer as a guinea pig! Vape me, rape me, make me write bad checks....

~~Cheryl

[SleepHater]

I volunteer as a guinea pig! Vape me, rape me, make me write bad checks....

~~Cheryl

Duly Noted!