blood in saliva..

[TropicalBob]

Kent, just to clarify: Your post sounds like Chantix, not Zyban. Chantix (spelled different ways in different countries) is the smoke-a-week-and-quit drug that blocks nicotine receptors. I had a miserable experience with it. Never tried Zyban but thought that was a tranquilizer for anxiety in quitters ...

[lynchite]

Hi,

No I haven't tried zyban, tried the patches which did work but I started again.. obviously.
I think the blood was from my nose. I blew my nose later and that seemed to be the culprit. Never normally get it though and I do kind of breath the excess vapour up through my nose so wondering if this has anything to do with it. My worry is, if it can do that to my nose what's it doing to my lungs...

[KentSP]

Tropical Bob the last time I checked Chantix was still not available here in south Africa. Zyban is also sold as a antidep called Wellbutrin. It used to be a very dangerous drug and was once pulled off the market however now that it is in a sustained realease form it is a lot safer. Not sure how it works but I am not a depressed person never taking any other type of antidep.

I've also once stopped for a year using nicotine spray but to get from cigarettes onto a spray is difficult so I added my own step of fist making sure i could handle a full week on snus without even one cigarette. Then using the 4 cans of spray that go from high to nothing and each last a week was simple.
Besides being addicted to nicotine I am addicted to the spikes in smoking that you don't get from snus or patches or spray and I think the main reason I can't cut down the nicotine in cigarettes is because of the spikes. I need a constant level of nicotine to be able to slowly cut down. With cigs you can just suck harder and get spikes.

[TropicalBob]

I know EXACTLY what you mean! I've written elsewhere that no matter the nic strength of e-liquid, e-smoking, snus, et al, are NOT like smoking a real cigarette. It's the 7-seconds-after-inhaling spike that's missing .. and I don't know why since vapor has nic. But the spike is missing.

A constant blood level of nicotine is not enough, I've found.

[KentSP]

I think I may have found one reason regarding the spike from smoking.
Under the heading CNS on the Nicotine article on wikipedia I found some information.

Basically it says Nicotine increases dopamine and other neuron transmitter levels in the brain and Harmine(which is only produced from burning tobacco) slows the rate down which the brain can break down dopamine, so in effect I'd say Harmine which is present in smoked tobacco amplifies the effects of nicotine.

[TropicalBob]

Kent, did you see Dr. Laugesen's new report on cartridge contents? Put your suggestion together with that report and we now know WHAT IS MISSING? The cartridge liquid has no harmine. There is no burning of tobacco, of course, to produce harmine but none is added to our liquid either. Harmine is a MAO Inhibitor. It boosts nicotine's impact. Without it, we can suck 36mg liquid non-stop and still not get the feeling of cigarette smoking. "Throat hit" is not what's missing. Harmine is what's missing.

Now, it would go beyond a home experiment to figure out an amount and add it to our liquid. That would be for chemists to do. But if they can do that, without attracting the wrath of regulators, we might indeed duplicate the pleasure we once had while smoking a tobacco cigarette.

If you haven't read Dr. Laugesen's report on our liquid, do so. You'll see what's there -- nicotine aplenty -- and what's not, a MAO inhibitor. I think you nailed it! Congratulations.

Here are a couple of grafs from a med site on harmine:

As a MAO inhibitor, harmine inhibits the breakdown of monoamines by enzymes called monoamine oxidases. Monoamines include neurotransmitters (serotonin, dopamine), hormones (melatonin) and drugs.

Harmine is found in a wide variety of different organisms, most of which are plants. The harmine-containing plants listed include tobacco ...

[Grenage]

If it continues, see a doctor. Don't take chances

[bghouse]

Hi TB,

Harmine is an MAO Inhibitor? That really tingled my brain... Aren't there some kind of drug interactions with MAO inhibitors? For some reason, my brain keeps seeing "do not take if you are using any kind of MAO inhibitor"?

Am I imagining this? I only ask, because if there is and we add it to e-liquid then don't we end up having to have more FDA regulations and stuff?

(sorry, not really up on all the legal stuff)

[TropicalBob]

No, you're right. There are all kinds of precautions for MAO inhibitors. But if that's what provides the lasting satisfaction of a tobacco cigarette, then it might be possible to replicate smoking closely by adding a measured amount. I would not even begin to think of trying something so hazardous, but I hope the chemists who concoct our liquids at least consider how to make the vapor more satisfying.

And, yep, if it were added, it might invite an FDA involvement right away.

[Kate]

Might the 'hit' effect of harmine have something to do with it being alkaline? Theoretically that would create an environment where nicotine is absorbed faster. If it is to do with alkalinity we (or a chemist) might be able to find a substitute that is non hazardous.