blood in saliva.. - Page 3 - e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat

TropicalBob · 10-30-2008, 04:37 PM

As I understand it, harmine is not about hit. Nicotine is sent to the brain via the blood steam where it tells the brain to produce dopamine and seratonin. Those are our "feel good" chemicals. Other things, like candy, can kick off "pleasure chemical" release as well. Harmine apparently slows down the breakdown of these pleasure chemicals. I think of it as an enhancer.

But there are many interaction cautions, when used with other drugs, etc.

Changing the PH of our liquid would be safer and easier than attempting to add a measured amount of harmine. The "hit" could be made stronger (I don't want that) by other, safe methods.

KentSP · 11-02-2008, 05:52 PM

Hi Tropical Bob sorry have not seen the report but you can go ahead and see what the Doc has to say about it. I was thinking if Harmine was in a pill form and you could get it prescribed then maybe no need to put it in the liquid. A doctor may well know the safest alternative that does the same job and is already available. I saw somewhere Harmine is being researched as an anti dep but being a natural substance that can't be patented I don't think much will come of the research. A good example is the citisine plant which showed great results for quitting smoking that in order to patent Phizer re-engineered the molecules to make chantix, another example is the ibogaine plant used to quit heroine and alcohol showing over 80% success rate also not receiving much attention from the big names.

Somoney · 11-03-2008, 06:51 PM

Harmine (aka Harmala alkaloids) while generally legal, is often found in articles and testimonials for increasing the effects of hallucinogenic dugs and substances. It's an MAOI which stops or slows the bodies ability to break down certain chemicals, protenes, etc. While it increases the potency of certain substances, I've read on EROWID.ORG where normally benign chemical prescriptions turn into a deadly cocktails that the body is unable to deal with.
I'm not a doctor but IMO any substance posted in the erowid.org experience vaults should be cautioned against.

chips · 01-20-2009, 03:01 PM

I absolutely agree that the missing factor in all the stop smoking methods, is that they do not allow for a gradual decrease in harmine, a powerful MAOI anti depressant, discontinuation effects including, anxiety, insomnia, agitation, vivid dreams, etc.

However there is a way you can get harmine without going on antidepressants or taking a pill, as coffee also contains harmine. Strong coffee, plus nicotine, will give you that similar relaxation that a cigarette does. Nicotine alone will not do it. Then if you want to stop being reliant on all these chemicals a gradual reduction in dose is easiest, so you gradually cut down the nicotine, gradually cut down the harmine (by regulating coffee intake) and making that gradual transition, you can then happily exist without chemical dependencies.

I wish that the companies who are creating products for quitting smoking, would acknowledge that harmine, not just nicotine, plays a massive role in smokers dependency, that way they may actually come up with a quitting aid that was gentle on people.

katink · 01-20-2009, 04:18 PM

There is also mention from knowledgeable people that what misses may mainly be the CO2, that is taking away from the oxygen to the brains (depriving the brain from oxygen, while giving it nicotine at the same time, would account for 'the missing link' (or at least one of them) between e-smoking and real smoking).

I think this should be easily verifiable, really... let an e-smoker breathe into (and out of) a pastic bag for a bit; then take a big puff of e-smoke; and return to the bag-breathing for a bit more.
What do you think, isn't that a real easy (and safe) experiment that should actualy acknowledge this idea, or rule it out? (Should be done by someone really missing the cig-smoking though, I think, to make it into a valuable piece of info).

sherid · 01-20-2009, 06:36 PM

Zyban is the same as the anti-depressant Wellbutrin. IMO anti-depressants are serious problem drugs, perhaps as dangerous as smoking. I say that because of my own experience with the drug, Effexor. When I took Effexor, it was great for the anxiety and depression I was experiencing. It remained great until I decided I did not want to take it for the rest of my life and tried first tapering off then just stopping it. WOW, what a nightmarish experience that was: brain zaps, unrelenting insominia, anxiety off the wall, dark depression, etc. It took me over 6 wks of this horrid existence to get it out of my system, but I stuck it out. Most disturbing though is that there are subtle changes to my thinking process and my emotions that seem permanently altered two years later. I am further bothered by numerous reports, including those about school shooters, who were on anti depressants and then stopped. I believe that anti depressants serve a purpose in extreme cases of depression, but they should not be handed out like candy to anyone who is feeling a bit sad. Serving them up to huge populations of smokers trying to quit is also frightening.

TropicalBob · 01-20-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

I wish that the companies who are creating products for quitting smoking, would acknowledge that harmine, not just nicotine, plays a massive role in smokers dependency, that way they may actually come up with a quitting aid that was gentle on people.

I think that's an accurate summation, CHIPS. And I've read elsewhere that it is not CO2. The more I read, the more convinced I become that harmine is the missing link.

P.S. Forum isn't working right today! Editing is difficult.

Danny · 01-21-2009, 11:48 PM

I have also noticed blood in my saliva. Actually, I can taste a hint of it in my mouth. It may be my gums bleeding... I never had this problem before. I started e-smoking about two weeks ago and for probably the past week I have started to notice a faint bloody taste in my mouth and have rarely seen a tint of pink-ish in my saliva. I don't know if it's my gums, lungs, nose or what... but something is bleeding. I am going to see a doctor in a few weeks and I'll speak to him about this. If he has anything to say about it I will post it here.

I'm thinking it's possible that this could be a side effect from e-smoking or it could have just happened around the same time by coincidence.

I also haven't smoked tobacco since a couple days after I started e-smoking.

alltah · 01-22-2009, 12:19 AM

This may be of interest, I have given up smoking a few times in the last 10 years and each & every time after a couple of weeks or so i have suffered with bleeding gums, the same thing happened after a couple of weeks with the e cig and after a five day course with a decent mouthwash it seems to have cleared up. I have been using a daily mouthwash (without Acholol) and the problem has gone away.

lynchite · 01-28-2009, 01:22 PM

Danny,

Please can you post your experience with this, if it has reoccurred and what the doc says? This is becomming something of an obsession for me, I worry everytime I brush my teeth incase there is blood in my saliva, I even dream about it sometimes!!

I do have a condition though called globus pharingus which is the tightening of the muscular wall between your food passage and lungs, it makes it feel like you have a lump in your throat. Before it was diagnosed I was seriously worried that it was a cancer on my larynx. It comes and goes now but I always have this fear associated with it.

E-smoking does seem to improve it but it's not cured it.

01-20-2009, 03:01 PM	#24
chips Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2	Harmine is in tobacco and coffee I absolutely agree that the missing factor in all the stop smoking methods, is that they do not allow for a gradual decrease in harmine, a powerful MAOI anti depressant, discontinuation effects including, anxiety, insomnia, agitation, vivid dreams, etc. However there is a way you can get harmine without going on antidepressants or taking a pill, as coffee also contains harmine. Strong coffee, plus nicotine, will give you that similar relaxation that a cigarette does. Nicotine alone will not do it. Then if you want to stop being reliant on all these chemicals a gradual reduction in dose is easiest, so you gradually cut down the nicotine, gradually cut down the harmine (by regulating coffee intake) and making that gradual transition, you can then happily exist without chemical dependencies. I wish that the companies who are creating products for quitting smoking, would acknowledge that harmine, not just nicotine, plays a massive role in smokers dependency, that way they may actually come up with a quitting aid that was gentle on people.

01-20-2009, 06:36 PM	#26
sherid ECF Veteran Join Date: May 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio USA Posts: 1,302	Anti depressants and quitting smoking Zyban is the same as the anti-depressant Wellbutrin. IMO anti-depressants are serious problem drugs, perhaps as dangerous as smoking. I say that because of my own experience with the drug, Effexor. When I took Effexor, it was great for the anxiety and depression I was experiencing. It remained great until I decided I did not want to take it for the rest of my life and tried first tapering off then just stopping it. WOW, what a nightmarish experience that was: brain zaps, unrelenting insominia, anxiety off the wall, dark depression, etc. It took me over 6 wks of this horrid existence to get it out of my system, but I stuck it out. Most disturbing though is that there are subtle changes to my thinking process and my emotions that seem permanently altered two years later. I am further bothered by numerous reports, including those about school shooters, who were on anti depressants and then stopped. I believe that anti depressants serve a purpose in extreme cases of depression, but they should not be handed out like candy to anyone who is feeling a bit sad. Serving them up to huge populations of smokers trying to quit is also frightening. __________________ I don't want any of your statistics; I took your whole batch and lit my pipe with it. Mark Twain

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10-30-2008, 04:37 PM	#21
TropicalBob ECF Veteran Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Charlotte, FL USA Posts: 5,076	As I understand it, harmine is not about hit. Nicotine is sent to the brain via the blood steam where it tells the brain to produce dopamine and seratonin. Those are our "feel good" chemicals. Other things, like candy, can kick off "pleasure chemical" release as well. Harmine apparently slows down the breakdown of these pleasure chemicals. I think of it as an enhancer. But there are many interaction cautions, when used with other drugs, etc. Changing the PH of our liquid would be safer and easier than attempting to add a measured amount of harmine. The "hit" could be made stronger (I don't want that) by other, safe methods.

11-02-2008, 05:52 PM	#22
KentSP Full Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: South Africa Posts: 44	Hi Tropical Bob sorry have not seen the report but you can go ahead and see what the Doc has to say about it. I was thinking if Harmine was in a pill form and you could get it prescribed then maybe no need to put it in the liquid. A doctor may well know the safest alternative that does the same job and is already available. I saw somewhere Harmine is being researched as an anti dep but being a natural substance that can't be patented I don't think much will come of the research. A good example is the citisine plant which showed great results for quitting smoking that in order to patent Phizer re-engineered the molecules to make chantix, another example is the ibogaine plant used to quit heroine and alcohol showing over 80% success rate also not receiving much attention from the big names.

11-03-2008, 06:51 PM	#23
Somoney Full Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: USA Posts: 85	Harmine (aka Harmala alkaloids) while generally legal, is often found in articles and testimonials for increasing the effects of hallucinogenic dugs and substances. It's an MAOI which stops or slows the bodies ability to break down certain chemicals, protenes, etc. While it increases the potency of certain substances, I've read on EROWID.ORG where normally benign chemical prescriptions turn into a deadly cocktails that the body is unable to deal with. I'm not a doctor but IMO any substance posted in the erowid.org experience vaults should be cautioned against.

01-20-2009, 04:18 PM	#25
katink ECF Veteran Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 1,235 Tweet this post!	There is also mention from knowledgeable people that what misses may mainly be the CO2, that is taking away from the oxygen to the brains (depriving the brain from oxygen, while giving it nicotine at the same time, would account for 'the missing link' (or at least one of them) between e-smoking and real smoking). I think this should be easily verifiable, really... let an e-smoker breathe into (and out of) a pastic bag for a bit; then take a big puff of e-smoke; and return to the bag-breathing for a bit more. What do you think, isn't that a real easy (and safe) experiment that should actualy acknowledge this idea, or rule it out? (Should be done by someone really missing the cig-smoking though, I think, to make it into a valuable piece of info).

01-21-2009, 11:48 PM	#28
Danny Full Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Posts: 38	I have also noticed blood in my saliva. Actually, I can taste a hint of it in my mouth. It may be my gums bleeding... I never had this problem before. I started e-smoking about two weeks ago and for probably the past week I have started to notice a faint bloody taste in my mouth and have rarely seen a tint of pink-ish in my saliva. I don't know if it's my gums, lungs, nose or what... but something is bleeding. I am going to see a doctor in a few weeks and I'll speak to him about this. If he has anything to say about it I will post it here. I'm thinking it's possible that this could be a side effect from e-smoking or it could have just happened around the same time by coincidence. I also haven't smoked tobacco since a couple days after I started e-smoking.

01-22-2009, 12:19 AM	#29
alltah UK Supplier Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: East Sussex UK Posts: 17	This may be of interest, I have given up smoking a few times in the last 10 years and each & every time after a couple of weeks or so i have suffered with bleeding gums, the same thing happened after a couple of weeks with the e cig and after a five day course with a decent mouthwash it seems to have cleared up. I have been using a daily mouthwash (without Acholol) and the problem has gone away.

01-28-2009, 01:22 PM	#30
lynchite Full Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: North West UK Posts: 68	Danny, Please can you post your experience with this, if it has reoccurred and what the doc says? This is becomming something of an obsession for me, I worry everytime I brush my teeth incase there is blood in my saliva, I even dream about it sometimes!! I do have a condition though called globus pharingus which is the tightening of the muscular wall between your food passage and lungs, it makes it feel like you have a lump in your throat. Before it was diagnosed I was seriously worried that it was a cancer on my larynx. It comes and goes now but I always have this fear associated with it. E-smoking does seem to improve it but it's not cured it.