A List of Common Symptoms when E-smoking

[e-pipeman]

Originally Posted by Textuality

It's in the first post... but I just figured I'd post to say that I get a dry throat when e-smoking. It doesn't last long, but it's quite noticeable when I'm actually using the device, sometimes resulting in a dry cough.

In the evening I find that recourse to beer solves this problem...

[Weegie Burd]

Originally Posted by expipeman

In the evening I find that recourse to beer solves this problem...

Why wait until evening?

Surprisingly, despite a bout of laryngitis, I'm not finding the e-smoking is irritating my throat, however, the indigestion it's causing is brutal.

Yesterday I used my new wee gizmo quite a bit (the first proper "outing" its had) and last night, after another long session of vaping, I started to take major chest pains. At the time it was quite scary as I was convinced it was more sinister than it really was. I lay on the sofa for about an hour freaking out before it became apparant that the chest pains was infact indigestion.

I was both relieved and felt like such an eejit when I realised what it was.

Still suffering tonight but I'm finding popping Gaviscon tablets, like sweeties, is helping a bit.

The things we do for our fix...

[Kate]

Go easy on the nicotine, those are overdose symptoms.

[Weegie Burd]

Originally Posted by Kate

Go easy on the nicotine, those are overdose symptoms.

Hi Kate, if your reply was to me then thanks for that, I didn't realise.

Even if your reply wasn't meant for me, I think I'll calm down a bit on the ol' vaping and listen to my body [for a change].

After I post this message I'm off to leave my eCig in the kitchen, where I usually smoke my rollies, as I'm convinced part of the problem is having it to hand - I may as well remove the temptation and use it as I would fags, rather than using it every time I clap eyes on it.

[Satire]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA HOT DAMN! Got some solid info on long term PG use. Again, I have more cramming to finish tonight so I really can't get too into it (already blown 20 min and it's midnight). Msd me if u want link I haven't had time to read it all, but it is a professional study on long term effects of various smoke machine ingredients, they were hired by the broadway people in New York (the plays Cats, Rent, etc.)

Couple things first:
Bob - I have nothing but respect for your logical thinking skills, as you have been the voice of reason on numerous threads. That said, I have a couple disagreements on your diagnosis of his symptoms (mainly tightness of chest, and wasn't sure about headaches, so started looking for trials).

No burn baby - I was beginning to think I was the only one too concerned about the ingredients, thanks for showing interest (and bob too). Yes vanillin is one of the chemicals found in vanilla, helps give its signature smell, and yes my advice is don't inhale vanillin, is reported to cause mutation in cells after repeated use. I really want to get in detail on all the chems I have found so far but I've had like 6 hours of sleep (total) in the last 4 days (edit-next day, now at 10 hours and 5 days), constant studying/work/school/studying, so I have had 0 time to do anything (including eat, make any contact with friends, clean, etc), but I will devote some time this weekend to further investigation of the chems and see if I can make a (theoretically) working e-liquid with the "healthiest" ingredients.

moving right along...

WOW that was an amazing waste of time, they had the pdf file secured so you can't use the copy paste function, cant print it, can't do anything. Tried using text recognition software and just screenshotting it, but the software couldn't recognize half the stuff and was a pain (IT WAS FRIGGIN TEXT HOW HARD COULD THAT BE?!). So I went back to my old e-pirate days and downloaded an illegal cracked version of a shady .pdf password removal program and back on track (only started typing this yesterday, is now next day at 10:42pm)

Eheheheh I'm so happy btw... here is the toxicity report for PG, I don't have another sleepless night to blow on this post so I'm not going to format it all pretty, I'll just highlight the stuff I found important and you can read it how it is.
a) Acute Toxicity and Irritancy PG has a very low degree of acute toxicity. The oral LD50 (the dose lethal to 50% of an exposed population) for various animal species ranges from about 18 to 30 grams/kg body weight (HSDB 1997). For a 70 kg human, this would correspond to ingestion of more than one quart of the pure material. It has a very low degree of skin and eye irritation, though some sensitive individuals (suffering from dermatitis) may display some skin irritation from direct contact with the pure liquid. Because of its wide use in cosmetics, in more than 4000 products and at concentrations of up to 50% in a few cases, the effect of PG on the skin has been extensively studied (CIREP 1994). PG showed no evidence of significant irritancy or allergic sensitization potential in several studies in animals, but a low incidence of irritancy and allergic reactions have been II-4 reported in humans, particularly when exposure was to high concentrations of the chemical (>50%) under occlusive conditions (CIREP 1994).
{This next part is so perfect for us}
Exposure of rats to a high concentration (160 mg/m3) of a fine aerosol of PG (median aerodynamic diameter of around 2 μm) 6 hr/day, 5 days/week, for 90 days resulted in nasal hemorrhage and ocular discharge (possibly due to dehydration of the nasal passages and eyes) starting during the second week of exposure {I believe a few people here have said their symptoms started after a couple weeks or a month even} and diminishing over the weekends when no exposure occurred (Suber et al. 1989). By comparison, the highest air concentration measured in a previous NIOSH study of theatrical fog was less than 2 mg/m3. In a very early study, exposure of children to atmospheres containing PG at {ours are more concentrated} 94 mg/m3 (presumably as an aerosol) caused no effects on respiratory mucous membranes (Harris and Stokes 1943).
b) Systemic Toxicity PG shows a low degree of systemic toxicity. Metabolism of PG in the body produces lactic {this is produced by muscles when you work out and accumulates in the liver, which then process it into glucose (or was is glycose?), this process requires oxygen which is why you pant for a while after you work out, I'll shut up now just had a test over it 2 days ago and wanted to share :P} and pyruvic acids, which are normal components of human metabolism. Only when exposure levels are extremely high are adverse effects likely. Very high oral doses (more than 700 mg/kg/day for several days) have been associated with abnormal heart rhythm in a 15 month old child receiving a vitamin preparation. Another child receiving a vitamin preparation containing 4-8 g PG/day developed seizures. In both cases, the adverse effects disappeared when exposure stopped. {This is good news, means any problems were just tissue irritation and aggrivation, not mutations or tissue damage} CNS effects were also seen in adults receiving 60-80 grams (2 to 3 ounces) of PG/day orally and in infants receiving intravenous injections of vitamin preparations containing PG at about 3 g/day {If a damn infant is taking 3 grams straight to the bloodstream and is only having mild, reversible problems, then any side effects we are having are just tissue irritation} (BIBRA 1996). Absorption of large amounts of PG by burn patients treated with an antibiotic cream caused increased osmotic pressure in the blood. {That raise in blood pressure might not be just from nicotine folks!} This effect on osmotic pressure may be the cause of the CNS effects seen in several cases involving very high oral doses like those described above. Cats appear to be more sensitive to PG than other species. Daily oral doses of 80 or 443 mg/kg/day for 94 days were without adverse effects in one study in cats, but in other studies in which oral doses of 675 mg/kg/day to 4,800 mg/kg/day were given, damage to the blood cells (Heinz bodies) was produced, and there were some mild effects on the liver and spleen (Bauer et al. 1992; BIBRA 1978, both as cited in BIBRA 1996). The blood effects were reversible when the cats were fed a control diet (BIBRA 1996). Dogs showed similar effects only when doses were in the range of 4,000 to 5,000 mg/kg/day; not at 2,000 or 3,000 mg/kg/day (BIBRA 1996).
b.1) Reproductive Toxicity. No adverse effects on reproduction or embryonic development have been reported in animals exposed to PG by oral, inhalation, or subcutaneous injection at doses up to levels that are toxic to the parents. Not surprisingly, at extremely high dose levels when more than 20% of a rat’s diet was replaced with PG (a dose of more than 8 g/kg/day – equivalent to about one pint per day for a human), reproduction was impaired{.....wow} (BIBRA 1996).
b.2) Genotoxicity. PG has been tested for its ability to cause genetic mutations or other genetic damage in mice, rats, mammalian cells in vitro, bacteria, and yeast. No convincing evidence of genotoxicity was seen in any of these tests (ATSDR 1993; CIREP 1994; BIBRA 1996).
II-5 b.3) Carcinogenicity. {HELL YEA! FOR THIS PART} No indication of carcinogenicity was seen when rats were fed PG at up to 5% in their diet for 2 years; or exposed to air containing the chemical at up to 350 mg/m3 for 18 months; or when it was painted onto the skin of mice twice weekly for 2 years (BIBRA 1996). There was also no evidence of carcinogenicity in several more limited studies (BIBRA 1996).

Ok this one definately passes the safe-to-esmoke test IMHO, Only problems seemed to be skin/eye irritation and drying of the mucous membranes (this could possibly lead to runny nose if you quit esmoking too), and there are tons of things (namely, WATER) that can be used to keep that drying from becomming a problem. This also seems to account for most of the sore throat/dry throat/mouth sores(one lady mentioned these)/dry lung cough. These tests showed that 2 years of exposure had no lasting effects on the body, and that any irritation is merely irritation and goes away when expose stops. Haven't fully checked out VG yet but it seems to be around the same safety level, will report on that later. If anyone wants the full pdf of this file message me your e-mail and I'll send it along, or you might be able to find it on google or something by searching for <insert a couple sentences from document>. And again, sorry for the delays I have been going round-the-clock this last week.

So much more to say but I promised myself I would stop at 11:30 and it is midnight now~

[Satire]

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and now I find test results from the ruyan liquid posted on a diff thread.. -doh- oh well, still have to check em each myself to be sure, good to see they have covered the main two components and found em to be ok (many of the lesser chemicals were being judged on oral consumption reports though). So far each cartridge ingredient list I've read has had at least one dangerous chemical in it that was just from the flavoring agents, namely vanillin and benzene (most terrible carcinogen ever! They claim to have revised the formula, but yowch), still shows that we need a list of ingredients that have been long-term-inhalation tested and approved. Blah another night gone, I gots 2 go

[Kate]

Originally Posted by Weegie Burd

Hi Kate, if your reply was to me then thanks for that, I didn't realise.

Even if your reply wasn't meant for me, I think I'll calm down a bit on the ol' vaping and listen to my body [for a change].

After I post this message I'm off to leave my eCig in the kitchen, where I usually smoke my rollies, as I'm convinced part of the problem is having it to hand - I may as well remove the temptation and use it as I would fags, rather than using it every time I clap eyes on it.

Hi Weegie, yes I was replying to your post about indigestion etc. Nicotine can cause that and unfortunately many people swap from cigs to esmoking without knowing that they can easily be increasing their nicotine dose. I think a lot of the side effects we hear about on the forum are related to high nic doses. Symptoms subside as tolerance develops but you need more nic for the same effect then.

If you vape low or zero nic juice you can esmoke as much as you like and it likely won't harm you. There are different techniques, some people vape constant low doses and some vape occasional high doses for nic peaks. Some others vape constant high doses ... that's not very good for health.

Have a look at this thread, it will give you an idea about nic and getting the dose right -
Nicotine safety

[TropicalBob]

Nice work, Satire, and I'll take your compliment. As for tightness of chest .. every other previous attempt I made to quit cigarettes resulted in cravings and moments of what can only be called panic attacks. I'd realize I couldn't have my old friend, the cigarette, and I'd start to feel a tightness in my chest, shortness of breath, loss of vision and balance to the point of almost blacking out.

I became like those stereotypical cartoon characters that "pant" when they can't have something they want! I panted and came to the edge of passing out.

I'm doing better staying off with the e-cig. I have cigarette cravings all the time, but so far have avoided panic attacks by using the e-cig, snus, or pipe. Keeps the demons in check, you understand.

[No burn baby]

Satire, you are my new hero. THANK YOU so much for taking the time to research and share this invaluable information with us all. I for one really, really appreciate it an enormous deal!

I guess what we need to do now is look into which juice flavours actually feature the addition of vanillin as I'm sure it won't just be vanilla. What a shame, vanilla is my favourite!

Satire, I am hoping you'll be able to delve into several juices for us and see what the safest options will be. Also, should you concoct some of your own I would most certainly be very interested.

What are your findings, if any, on VG? How does it compare to PG on the safety scale?

You are a true star sir! Thanks again.

[Liberate_Yourself]

Great info Satire! Taht answered a couple questions that I had not been able to answer for myself yet. Thanks!!!