Nicotine and nerve pain

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by SpottedPony

Wow, that is a really interesting story! I believe that the medicinal qualities of nicotine are not as researched as they could be due to the "super anti" people...you know, the Nazi types that make a living off of being "anti" something - and make your skin crawl to be around.

By sheer observation - it has become accepted fact that there are many diseases tobacco users do not get. It is sad that it had to be by mere observation...not hard research.

There is a company...Targacept...that is throwing quit a bit of nrg into researching the biochemical pathways of nicotine for pharm application. They are a spin off of RJ reynolds..I believe. They actually get "blow back" from drugs that are developed from nicotine research. Think about that ... this is the dogma that the "Anti everything Nazi's" have brough on our "advanced" civilization. A huge percentage of the population fears any drug that has been developed from knowledge gained from researching the pathways of nicotine. Dogma is dangerous...always...but when it reaches these levels...it shed some incite on just how Nazi Germany came to be.

Pony, you make a good point! Dogma cannot get a deep foothold without funding. It also can't get a deep foothold without an under-educated population that does not inquire about things much. The two go hand in hand: funding creates the propaganda machine, and ignorance believes it and spreads it. Double-edged sword.

[jamaesi]

Originally Posted by Kurt

Jamaesi, hey maybe something as simple as increasing nic is working, at least to offset the acute pain! I do not envy your situation. It sounds like your spine is trying to self destruct! The injuries you have been through or are going through are pretty difficult to treat painwise, and you may well need something much stronger than nic. There are electrical stimulation devices that have proven to be fairly effective (the name I am remembering is Beck, electro-stimulation therapy, or something like that). And certain strains of less a less legal plant...

Keep us informed here of what you find out over the next few days! I'm sure I'm not the only one that wants to hear about it!

Yes, I do think increasing nicotine and vaping more has been helping. Thank G-d, because...

The only problem with pain relief is that I am 22 and this started when I was a preteen. Chronic pain patients are treated HORRIBLY enough in America, and it's even worse when you're young. I can't tell you how many times I have been told I am too young to be going through this and in the same breath I am told I am too young for painkillers. If I'm too young to be going through this I think I should be old enough to have pain relief. There is so much misinformation about narcotics, especially with doctors. People in chronic pain aren't addicted to painkillers, they are dependent. There is a big difference between the two. You wouldn't say a diabetic is addicted to insulin shots, they are dependent on them. People in chronic pain, when they take painkillers, they get relief from pain, not high. They don't take the painkillers recreationally, they take them to function.

All the various doctors in different fields all refuse to prescribe me painkillers. For the past five months I've been almost completely bedridden because the 2 herniated discs have gone from bad to worse. No one would give me anything for pain, no one believed me when I said I know I have another herniated disc- and I was wrong, I had TWO massively herniated discs causing the worst nerve pain I have ever had in my legs. I had to beg for them to do a scan of my back. When my rehab doctor ordered the scan he even had the audacity to say that nothing would show up on the myelogram! I hope he's eating a big old plate of crow right now. And I hope it's dry and stringy and really really really icky and gross. The same rehab doctor also drug tested me before giving me painkillers. I was taking ONE vicodin 5/500 a DAY. That's about as weak as you can go with vicodin.

I have to beg for them and sometimes I have to go to the emergency room and look like a drug-seeker to get them. I don't want to be on painkillers for the rest of my life but sometimes, especially with breakthrough pain, it's the only thing that helps. It's not like I'm making things up, I've had 3 back surgeries and a long list of painful and well-documented back conditions. My first surgery when I was 15, the herniated disc was so badly herniated they wanted to video-tape the surgery to use to teach in medical school. My back is so bad it's a good example, LOL! I have done just about every therapy I can for the pain... I do stretches, I exercise as much as I can even though it's just walking in a therapy pool, I took NSAIDs and fish oil. Untreated chronic pain is a leading cause of suicide and trust me, I've been there. If I hadn't have gotten medical assistance recently... I don't think I would be here. I just couldn't go through with that anymore. It also doesn't help I'm a woman and a person of colour- we are treated worse when seeking pain relief.

Even right now that I am in the position that the ONLY THING that will help is majour surgery, they still hem and haw over giving me anything for pain! I can't even take NSAIDs now (blood thinners are a no-no before surgery and you have to stop them 2 weeks before) and they said to just take tylenol. Tylenol! For severe pain! At least my neurosurgeon finally relented and gave me scripts for painkillers and muscle relaxers.

I am trying to get one of the TENS units like you talked about, but my insurance doesn't want to cover it. I was uninsured for two years and finally Medicaid decided they would cover me about two months ago. Currently I'm trying to get an exception for it so they will cover it, if not I'll have to appeal. Again, chronic pain patients are treated just awful and I am so sick of playing make the cripple jump through hoops for pain relief. I also, about three years ago, tried to get and electric stimulation machine implanted directly in my back but that surgery failed and I was left with a spinal fluid leak.

Also, the not so legal herb does help so so so much, but it's so hard to find now and I don't live in a state where it's legal for medical uses. It's one of the two things that actually take my pain completely away- the other one, strangely enough, is horseback riding.


At least vaping nicotine is helping and it is suuuuch a good thing I quit smoking a little over a month ago. I quit smoking before I knew I was going to have surgery and I'm so thankful I did because smoking before surgery is bad news. I am so grateful for e-cigs for so many reasons.

[abhowe]

I have severe Migraine Headaches and take narcotics, Tylenol with Codeine #3 to be exact..... These do not kill the pain but take the edge off..... Sometimes I will wake up with pain and not be able to sleep..... I get up and have 2 - 3 cigarettes and go back to bed and also to sleep.......

[Kurt]

jamaesi, well that's our fabulous medical system! i personally stay away from it entirely. once I realized that western medicine would not help me at all with GBS, i did much better. But this may not be possible for your situation.

Disclaimer: again, I am not a doctor, but...

I did get significant relief from nerve pain with tegretol, an anti-seizure med. it is also used for trigeminal neuralsia (spelling?)...the face nerve problem that is so awful. Another one like this is neurontin and I believe topomax. Anyway, these done act like opiates. In the beginning there are side effects like sedation and fever, but once you acclimate one of these may well be of benefit.

No offense, but maybe there is something about your appearance that is making them reluctant to give out pain meds. Maybe you come across as someone who will abuse them? I have found as a rule that western docs tend to be somewhat shallow and too worried about liability.

Best of luck, and keep us posted.

Kurt

[jamaesi]

Originally Posted by abhowe

I have severe Migraine Headaches and take narcotics, Tylenol with Codeine #3 to be exact..... These do not kill the pain but take the edge off..... Sometimes I will wake up with pain and not be able to sleep..... I get up and have 2 - 3 cigarettes and go back to bed and also to sleep.......

Huh! That's very interesting, migraines can be tricky to treat, but it does make sense nicotine would help with that. I hope you find more relief for your migraines, they're terrible to deal with.

Originally Posted by Kurt

jamaesi, well that's our fabulous medical system! i personally stay away from it entirely. once I realized that western medicine would not help me at all with GBS, i did much better. But this may not be possible for your situation.

Disclaimer: again, I am not a doctor, but...

I did get significant relief from nerve pain with tegretol, an anti-seizure med. it is also used for trigeminal neuralsia (spelling?)...the face nerve problem that is so awful. Another one like this is neurontin and I believe topomax. Anyway, these done act like opiates. In the beginning there are side effects like sedation and fever, but once you acclimate one of these may well be of benefit.

No offense, but maybe there is something about your appearance that is making them reluctant to give out pain meds. Maybe you come across as someone who will abuse them? I have found as a rule that western docs tend to be somewhat shallow and too worried about liability.

Best of luck, and keep us posted.

Kurt

I do a lot of alternative medicine for my other health conditions, so I'm completely open to those things... but for the herniated discs my track record is surgery or nothing.

I was thinking about asking about the off-label uses of anti-seizure meds, like the neurontin (gabapentin), but I'm going to wait until after I have surgery. Thanks for reminding me about it, though! I completely forgot about those. This is my third surgery for herniated discs, fourth back surgery total. Surgery was the only thing in the past that has helped with relieving the bulk of the pain... but after each surgery the risks go slightly up and the chance of the surgery helping go slightly down. I'm still really confident though, I have a great surgeon. We'll see what happens, just 9 days until surgery now. Hopefully it will work for my nerve pain.

Hehe, it would be sort of weird if it was my appearance. I'm Muslim. I don't cover my hair but I dress in modest clothing, look clean, etc. I also look sooo much younger than I am. A lot of times when I'm at the hospital they go "and we'll need your mommy to sign this..." rotflmao... It's kind of weird how young I look on the outside and then how old my body looks on the inside. Here's a (horrible, haha) pic of me... I use a cane to walk, maybe they think it's a pimp cane?

It's probably being a woman and being mixed race, though, why they don't take me seriously or do a little more to help manage my chronic pain. I've had much better luck with female doctors or POC doctors- but there aren't many in my immediate area in the specialties I need. I hear that a lot from women in alternative medicine, they turned to the alt med because their doctors weren't taking their concerns and conditions seriously just because they have a vagina. Pffft. One of my best friends is an alternative medicine doctor, I forget exactly what she's called? Anyway, she's been helping me quite a bit with managing some of my conditions and she'll have lots of helpful advice for me after surgery. She was the one who came up with a stretching regime for me that worked extremely well- there's certain stretches she has me do that instantly relieve my back pain. Oh, one thing, I've had psoriasis all my life, tried every pharm for it, and nothing worked. She gave me advice on what to eat, things to put on the psoriasis... and I'm completely psoriasis-free for the first time in my life! It's really amazing how helpful alternative medicine is, and sad it's so marginalized. Western medicine, though helpful for lots of things, aint all it's cracked up to be.

[Kurt]

Jamaesi, well there ya go! It IS your appearance: you're young and female! You are unfortunately in the demographic, regardless of your religion, that is marginalized most by docs with respect to pain killers.

For GBS pain, I also have an herbal remedy made from valerian root, kava kava root, and scullcap. Take a mug of water, and bring it to boiling in a pot. I don't know the concentrations of the pills, but most are about the same from brand to brand. Open and put into a mug-volume of simmering water (barely boiling) 3 kava kava capsules. Let it simmer for 10 min. then open and add 1 capsule each of valerian root and scullcap, and let the whole thing simmer for another 10 min. The kava will release its kavalactones and form a film on the surface. After 20 mintes total simmer time strain it, add some honey and I like a little milk and enjoy. If you did the kava right, it will make your mouth numb a bit, sort of like good licorice.

It will be like your body has taken a hot bath and is very relaxed. You may sleep. This nerve tonic is something I learned about in the early days of GBS recovery. Doesn't kill the pain, but the body feels like it has taken an opiate, without that nausea that I hate about those.

I have heard passion flower is also good for nerve pain, but never tried it. I take fish oil every day. I also take rhodiola rosea, which is supposed to be good for nerve issues, but I've not noticed that. It does make you feel good though, like green tea in a way. Have to be careful with that stuff though...too much is likely to really amp you up.

Interestingly, while nic does help a lot with nerve pain, caffeine seems to have the opposite effect. Coffee seems to aggravate my nerves more often than green tea. And also interesting is as I have been vaping, my caffeine intake has dropped dramatically. Maybe 10 % of what it was while I was smoking.

Although I do not wish to use it, perhaps the patch might give you the nic levels to really tell you if nic is helping. I hate the patch, but it might be worth a try for you, given that vaping seems to be rather inefficient in terms of nic delivery.

Hope you can find a doc that is more sympathetic to your plight, jamaesi!

Edit: it occurs to me that if you are taking an SSRI, like prozac or paxil, you should NOT use kava kava! It can have a synergistic effect with the SSRI and cause the seretonin syndrome, very unpleasant and dangerous.

[Vocalek]

Jamaesi, doctors can be such arrogant little pea-brains at times!
I just wanted to toss something out there, because you said you were open to alternatives. When I was about to have a molar extracted, I did some research and came across the web site of a holistic dentist. Before dental surgery, he recommends that patients take bromelain tablets the day before and for several days after surgery.

I did it, and I experienced ZERO pain. When the novocain wore off, I expected my mouth to be sore, but it wasn't.

I can't find his site right now, but did find this information:
Bromelain - Bromelain, Anas comosus, Proteolytic enzymes, pineapple stem, enzyme, digestive aid, anti-inflammatory, wound-healing agent, support cardiovascular health, circulatory health, soft tissue injuries, bruises, localized swelling, pain durati

Bromelain is extracted from pineapple and is a natural anti-inflammatory as well as pain controller.

My husband has been taking it while waiting for surgery on his rotator cuff. He gets a special type of MRI this Friday to determine whether they can do arthroscopic surgery or will have to actually cut his shoulder open.
I went to get a new bottle and when I got it home, I compared labels and discovered that I had picked up the capsules by mistake. I went back to exchange it. Get the 500 mg. tablets, and look for 2,000 MCU/ tablet. The tablets are smaller and easier to swallow IMO. You might have to go to a health food store. We happen to have a Vitamin Shoppe store a couple of miles away. Otherwise, the internet is as good a source for this as anywhere else.

[jamaesi]

Thank you, Kurt and Vocalek! The only ones that I've been using out of all of the suggestions are the fish oil which helped a bit with joint pain and the valerian root and it worked awesomely on my muscle spasms, didn't make me sleepy though.

I'll have to bookmark this thread for later reference- right now I can't take any meds other than the vicodin and flexeril because it's now 8 days to surgery and you have to stop 10 days prior to surgery. YAY! I'm getting closer. Haha, I remember when my stupid rehab doctor said something along the lines of "of course you don't want to go back to surgery again..." Um, of course I do! Aggressive treatment is necessary for back problem patients my age. My previous two back surgeries worked fantabulously to take the pain down to a bearable level. Pbbbtttp on you, enjoy your icky crow, it's cold by now, too.

Right now I can't take anything anti-inflammatory, which really sucks, but they're all blood thinners or possible blood thinners- some of them haven't been proven as blood thinners but it's better safe than sorry. My neurosurgeon took me off naproxen, fish oil, and even the emu oil I use topically. My first surgery I lost so much blood and needed more, but that was mostly because they misunderestimated my back and surgery drug on a lot longer than planned. I'm also terrified of getting another spinal fluid leak so I want my blood to be ready to go to patch things up if needed. When I had my first spinal fluid leak they didn't do a blood patch for a week- I was severely dehydrated, my veins collapsed, I was starving, in horrible pain and I actually did throw a temper tantrum (if I look young might as well use it to my advantage) after they did the blood patch. They wanted me to lay on my back afterwards, I didn't because it hurt so I bawled, they sedated me and laid me on my back, I woke up a few hours later feeling much better, everyone won. I was thinking that if they held off on fixing it for that long the cure must have been the Hope Diamond, not a five minute blood patch. Honestly, the small possibility of another leak scares me more than the surgery itself. I couldn't sleep for a day and a half after I had the myelogram because I was drinking as much caffeine as I could to ward one off, LOL!

Oh, I'm not currently taking any SSRIs... I've been on a whole list of them and they all made me feel horrible so I stopped them and won't take them anymore. I think the doctors prescribed them just to get me to shut up. :/ I mean, yes, I am depressed... but that's because I am in pain and can't do the things I want to do. That would depress anyone.


Thanks again for the suggestions! I'll start trying them out when I can.

[TJPatt72]

Originally Posted by Kurt

TJ, OMG!! I actually HAVE Crohn's disease (CD), too! This is going to sound crazy, but for about 9 months early on in my GBS recovery, I dated a woman, and is often the case, I quit smoking for her. I would just gut out the nerve pain periods. But in that time I developed Crohn's disease, passing blood and tissue. It was diagnosed by scope, so it seems it was what it was. Then we broke up, and I gravitated back to smoking. Most symptoms of CD went away, including blood and tissue and gut pain! I never knew why, but I am thinking about this now, and CD flairup is another issue I have always had when trying to quit analogs! Perhaps I know why now! BTW, I have had far LESS issues with CD even compared to smoking a pack a day of Winston LIghts. I think there may actaully be some things in analogs that aggrevate CD a bit, but the nic helps almost completely. Now with nic only, I am amazed at how well behaved I am down there!

In fact I would not be surprised if people that quit analogs and nic completely, the cold-turkey folks, have higher incidence of CD. After all, quitting is shown to lead to constipation and other gastric problems.

Ok, so that's at least two things I could, if I had to, go to a doc for to get a script to vape. If vaping becomes perscription only, that is. Oh, to have insurance pay for a chuck and life supply to excellent juice. (And then he pinched himself and realized THAT was a dream!). Why is it that I pay for insurance that allows only drugs that don't work, and anything that does work is under attack or illegal, at least in PA? It all goes back to rants I made early on here: there is no approved healthcare here, only disease care, or managed death.

I only glanced at the tests done, but think it said it had the opposite or no effect for CD. I came down with UC in 78 that started with the flu and I just got sicker. They where painting the barracks with lead paint (Germany) which only made me end up getting sick enough to land in the hospital dehydrated. You can bleed with it only being a severe case of UC. 3rd round of the hospital they finally tested me, but the doctor would only say it could be one of 3 things-UC, CD and no ideal of the third but suspect advance cancer. Went to the library and found an old medical book that said CD was UC that had turned cancerous, but the book was way behind the times so that was probabably a 1950's guess. So if yours is CD might want to read up on the results of nic use for it before adding that one onto a doctors list.

Nic is no different than morphine, etc. since it's all plant based. Tis just a matter of if they can make money off of it as to what is legal and what is not, adding the fact for it to be legal it has to harm you also to keep the money coming. My guess is the body has a lot easier time sluffing off things inhaled than it does for a pill which a lot of organs are used to sluff off it's passage. Doctor actually asked me once which I would rather see, Mom dying from all the medications she had to take that where also making her sicker or from her heart problem. Hanged if you do and hanged if you don't so you go with what will give you more time.

All kinds of human medications are turning up in water supplies and fish and it's from human waste (i.e. our fertlizer) getting into the environment. Don't think I've heard that nicotine has shown up in those reports though. Waste not want not !

[Kurt]

TJ, nicotine wouldn't turn up in water supplies, since it oxides too easily. But Cotinine might turn up. More likely decaying leaves and plants release more nic/cot than we do.

However, anal log butts are a BIG toxic problem, from the tars and filters that don't go away.