Toxicology Report

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by Trumpybloke

LOL well apples and oranges there frankie -- say you vape 2 ml a day---- how many ml is in an ice cream cone?? 2-300??? you would have to eat 10 bottles of e-liquid , and then the Nic will get ya , not the food additives....Thats just the point I am trying to say , its not the fact nasties are there , its the concentration of the nasties that counts and in what form they are presented ... lets not forget the most toxic compound in our liquid is actually the nicotine we crave... yet how many of us are saying helllllll thats a deadly poison --- lets get rid of it !!

OK. Just tell me it´s safe and I will be happy.

Is it safe?
You're talking to me?
Is it safe?
Is what safe?
Is it safe?
I don't know what you mean. I can't tell you something's safe or not, unless I know specifically what you're talking about.
Is it safe?
Tell me what the "it" refers to.
Is it safe?
Yes, it's safe, it's very safe, it's so safe you wouldn't believe it.
Is it safe?
No. It's not safe, it's... very dangerous, be careful.

[Trumpybloke]

Originally Posted by Frankie

OK. Just tell me it´s safe and I will be happy.

Is it safe?
You're talking to me?
Is it safe?
Is what safe?
Is it safe?
I don't know what you mean. I can't tell you something's safe or not, unless I know specifically what you're talking about.
Is it safe?
Tell me what the "it" refers to.
Is it safe?
Yes, it's safe, it's very safe, it's so safe you wouldn't believe it.
Is it safe?
No. It's not safe, it's... very dangerous, be careful.

That pretty much sums up the thread..... I can tell you this ok?
Its definitely safer than a sleepover at Micheal Jacksons house !!!!

[Trumpybloke]

OK boys and girls .. here it is from the horses mouth ( the horse wishes to remain anonymous as this is corporate formulation provided to me by the manufacturer)

"I attached the composition list of liquid in file,pls check

Our products get CE&ROHS Certificates, and also we have some test report for

the cartridges(equal to liquid) "


烟碱液成分表
(LIQUID COMPONET)
高烟碱液成分表(HIGH NICOTIONE LIQUID COMPONENT)

原料名称（MATERIAL） 原料比例(MATERIAL PROPORTION) 原料级别(MATERIAL DISTINCTION)
烟碱 （NICOTINE） 1.8％ 医药级(MEDICINE)
乳酸 （LACTIC ACID） 0.9％ 食品级(EDIBLE)
丙二醇（PROPYLENE GLYCOL） 91% 食品级(EDIBLE)
酒精（ALCOHOL） 4.5% 食品级(EDIBLE)
食用香精（FOOD PERFUME） 1.8% 食品级(EDIBLE)

中烟碱液成分表(MED NICOTIONE LIQUID COMPONENT)

原料名称（MATERIAL） 原料比例(MATERIAL PROPORTION) 原料级别(MATERIAL DISTINCTION)
烟碱 （NICOTINE） 1.4％ 医药级(MEDICINE)
乳酸 （LACTIC ACID） 0.9％ 食品级(EDIBLE)
丙二醇（PROPYLENE GLYCOL） 91.4% 食品级(EDIBLE)
酒精（ALCOHOL） 4.5% 食品级(EDIBLE)
食用香精（FOOD PERFUME） 1.8% 食品级(EDIBLE)

低烟碱液成分表(LOW NICOTIONE LIQUID COMPONENT)

原料名称（MATERIAL） 原料比例(MATERIAL PROPORTION) 原料级别(MATERIAL DISTINCTION)
烟碱 （NICOTINE） 1.1％ 医药级(MEDICINE)
乳酸 （LACTIC ACID） 0.9％ 食品级(EDIBLE)
丙二醇（PROPYLENE GLYCOL） 91.5% 食品级(EDIBLE)
酒精（ALCOHOL） 4.5% 食品级(EDIBLE)
食用香精（FOOD PERFUME） 2.0% 食品级(EDIBLE)

无烟碱液成分表(NO NICOTIONE LIQUID COMPONENT)

原料名称（MATERIAL） 原料比例(MATERIAL PROPORTION) 原料级别(MATERIAL DISTINCTION)
乳酸 （LACTIC ACID） 0.9％ 食品级(EDIBLE)
丙二醇（PROPYLENE GLYCOL） 92.6% 食品级(EDIBLE)
酒精（ALCOHOL） 4.5% 食品级(EDIBLE)
食用香精（FOOD PERFUME） 2.0% 食品级(EDIBLE)

The food perfume listed above are all food additives ( flavourings) , approved as safe for human consumption the percentages are a maximum incorporated into the blend ( diff flavours may compose 0.5% up to 2.0% the balance is made up with PG if required)....
This is what is in the 90% of fluid exiting china, I do not take responsibility for your cancers, indigestion, lockjaw, burnt atomisers , or dogs pregnancies

[Frankie]

Aaaaah, so it is safe.

医药级食用香精食品级医药级食品级, 酒精酒精酒精酒精酒精!

[Satire]

Originally Posted by Trumpybloke

I agree that all of the chemicals in our liquids have the POTENTIAL for harm , but as I sit here typing on my keyboard, my fingers are absorbing volatile organics given off by the plastics ........ like anything , it is the amount of exposure that is critical ...

Yes I agree, as I said I have done 0 tests on the liquids, I just made a list of each chemical that have been confirmed as parts of liquids (Ruyan, totally wicked's, etc) by the professional labs and posting what potential health effects they might have. Of course the quantity of each will make all the difference, but for example if the ratio of nicotine and acrolein are the same in tobacco and eliquid, I think the eliquid is going to deliver more un-damaged acrolein molecules to the bloodstream simply because there is no combustion or side-smoke and most people seem to take in more nicotine through e-smoking to try to compensate for the pleasure of tobacco smoking. As far as the nicotine source, the labs have identified tobacco-specific chemicals, which shows that the nicotine is being extracted from tobacco and not synthesized (if it was made in the lab it wouldn't have tobacco chemicals in it). Also the fact that this is being repeatedly consumed (some people put no-nic liquid in and puff all day) over long periods of time makes even smaller amounts much more dangerous in the long run (just because a cigarette didn't kill you doesn't mean smoking for your whole life is a safe thing to do).

The flavorings (food-perfume, essential oils, flavored sex-lube) that are being used have NOT been tested even by the professional labs, every report I have read just says "an essential oil component" or something similar, and usually justify their safety checkmark by mentioning it is used in some foods or simply that it is not a regulated substance. This is highly inadequate for a long-term safety report in the doses we consume, and I think they deserve more investigation.

I must say I lied about not doing more research, all day yesterday I was thinking of new things worth checking out/writing up as a reference (like the maoi/nicotine research on tobacco and how it could be replicated in eliquid), so that will be coming whenever I find some free time (or more stimulants ). I have a couple of personal chem projects to finish up this week, but right after that I will be working on a write-up for nicotine isolation (for t-bob) that can be done at the home by any non-chemist with a little common sense and some free time. I will try extracting from tobacco and extracting from already-made e-liquid because I believe if I can find a way to get the PG or VG out of the picture and then proceed with extraction it will be a much less laborious process for the individual (plant extractions are rather time and labor-consuming and often messy in the first stages). Nicotine isolation is the #1 way to cut down on dangerous chemicals in the eliquid (safety checking the flavorings is a very close #2), and the essential components (pg, water, nicotine, ethanol, and even a couple of the flavorings I could find info on) are all relatively safe, so it IS possible to make a "safe" e-liquid (if the government shuts off supply or if suppliers refuse to provide ingredient lists). But in any case I will keep ya posted on whatever I come up with.

[Cymri]

Fantastic work, Satire! My degree is in molecular biology and I must say I am impressed by your cogent and thorough analysis.

There seems to be a fair amount of confusion in this thread regarding the info in your analysis and the New Zealand study. The bottom line as I see it (and your main point as well) is that it is imperative that the nicotine we esmokers get in our liquid is as chemically pure as possible. Simple tobacco extractions won't cut it.

It's a no-brainer that we all want to avoid all of the other terrible toxins that we know are present in tobacco. It makes very little sense to have such sophisticated technology at hand with our e-cigs and then turn around and fill it with the same witches brew of chemicals that we are assailed with when we smoke "analogs."

The ideal eliquid would be formulated from purified reagent grade (99+%) nicotine, PG, ethanol, and water. Such a formulation would be extremely expensive as things are now since chemicals of that purity are only seen in research labs. It should be possible though to approach that kind of purity affordably, especially if there is large demand for it. By doing that we can simplify considerably the research on health effects. The health consequences of nicotine of course just have to be accepted, but by starting with pure stuff the attention can be turned to the safety of PG and the flavor additives.

I'm suspicious of the findings of the New Zealand study. Those were some remarkably clean numbers. Apart from being funded by Ruyan, I also wonder about the samples they tested. I'd like to see those findings corroborated by testing a bottle of their stuff that one of us had delivered to our door. If it tested the same, I'd be very encouraged that we are using a pretty safe product. However, the recent scandals of toxic products coming out of China does not inspire me with much confidence. I would be very much more comfortable using eliquid that was formulated and properly assayed by a reputable U.S. dealer.

Satire makes an extremely important point that vaping simple tobacco extractions may deliver even more of the tobacco toxins to our bodies than actually smoking. It's a sound hypothesis as he notes that the high heat of smoking destroys many toxins that our atomizers likely won't. We esmokers really need to take an active role in researching how our eliquids are formulated. The important question to ask is whether the nicotine has been actively purified by chromatography (or some other valid lab technique) to separate it as much as possible from the other toxins in tobacco. Any reputable formulator should have performed quality control assays that report the purity of the nicotine they add to eliquid. In my opinion, nicotine derived from tobacco should be a minimum of 90% pure to ensure we really are gaining the health benefits from esmoking that we hope we are.

[floyd]

From what I can understand from this discussion, the 2 biggest worries are the quality of the nicotine and the tobacco extract.

Does that mean that zero nicotine and/or e-juices without tobacco extract are relatively less harmful?

Also, do flavoured juices (mint, coffee, etc) contain tobacco extract, or is that something only in the tobacco flavoured juices?

[jennydotz]

Kinda glad to see this thread get a bump. So is there any more on this story? Anything more recent?

Thanks for the hard work that went into this Satire and No Burn (hope I'm getting the credits right).

[taz3cat]

Here is a list on known toxic flavorings/food additives:

Possible Adverse Effects

[QueenInNC]

Originally Posted by jennydotz

Kinda glad to see this thread get a bump. So is there any more on this story? Anything more recent?

Thanks for the hard work that went into this Satire and No Burn (hope I'm getting the credits right).

I agree. Thanks!

However, I just ordered some "chinese blend". Should I use it or toss it?

Where would YOU order from right now? I want to order some to take on vacation with me next month. WDYT? Thanks!