Vanilla, Vanillin - Safe or Not?

[SethG]

I've read though the post "Help with Vanilla?" and several other DIY liquid posts concerning the use of vanillin in e-liquid. I've searched for a thread directly concerning vanillin and haven't found one exclusively pertaining to this subject. I thought it would be good to start a thread concerning the issue directly as there seems to be concerns.

I would like to point out the no matter what "vanilla" flavor you might use it is going to contain vanillin. Whether the source is from chemical origin, "natural" origin, or from a vanilla bean, your vanilla flavor is going to contain vanillin. Please consider this; putting aside the argument products from natural origin are somehow better for you, the chemical vanillin is the same "stuff" whether its made chemically, or it comes from a vanilla pod. In fact, true vanilla does not contain vanillin until the pod is cured and it than contains over 170 flavor compounds besides vanillin (1).

The toxicity of vanillin has been well established. An average sized person would probably need to eat over 75 grams (2.5 ounces) of pure vanillin for it to have a toxic effect (2). The established "safe" daily intake of vanillin is 10 mg per kg. A strong vanilla flavor is present at about 2% concentrations of vanillin, so the amount used in any e-fluid is unlikely to ever become a toxic amount.

Now, given all of these facts that vanilla flavor is a safe, I have no data concerning the heating of vanilla in a propelyn glycol or glycerin solution. What are any of the flavorings we are using in e-fluid doing when we vape them? I'm looking at it this way, it's an established "safe to eat" flavor and is reasonably heat tolerant. If you bake vanilla cookies at 400 degrees Fahrenheit (200 C) in an oven, you are going to pull out vanilla cookies in 5-7 minutes and not something else. I'm not an expert or a professional chemist, I'm just wanting to point out the facts that are out there.

1. About The Vanilla Orchid - Vanilla Botanical Facts, Vanilla fragrans, Vanilla planiflora, Vanilla Beans, Cultivation - The flavor components are bound as glycosides and must be set free by enzymatic reaction. During the curing, an enzyme converts the precursors to the rich flavoring elements that make up more than 170 flavoring components.
2. 125. Vanillin (FAO Nutrition Meetings Report Series 44a) – Toxicology estimate based on i.p. Guinea-pig and 75 kg human body weight.

*edit for punctuation, double line returns

[ExFumidus]

I too have heard about the concerns over Vanillin . ... Though to be honest, I still have absolutely no idea whatsoever what these concerns are exactly ???

And while we are at it, ... what about Ethyl Vanillin ??? ... Any concerns there ???

I would really like to see some views/answers on this thread, for vanilla still remains one of my favourite flavours to vape !

Anyone ????

[Sun Vaporer]

Hi Seth--the reported issue with Vanillin is that when it is heated, it has reported that it becomes toxic to inhale. There where several articles posted on the Forum here that spell it out at length.

Also the players at Ecopure that I have spoke to at length have told me that they only employ pure vanilla extract as the Vanillin is toxic.


I have stayed away from it ever since. So is it a golden rule? I do not know, but better safe then sorry.

Sun

[cyb0rg]

I have never heard of anybody dying from baking vanilla cookies or cakes. If you ask me even if it's not "safe" to vape, it's still got to be safer than analogs. I've actually heard that mixing vanilla with paint makes the paint fumes less toxic.

[katsmeeoww]

Hi Seth--the reported issue with Vanillin is that when it is heated, it has reported that it becomes toxic to inhale. There where several articles posted on the Forum here that spell it out at length.

Also the players at Ecopure that I have spoke to at length have told me that they only employ pure vanilla extract as the Vanillin is toxic.


I have stayed away from it ever since. So is it a golden rule? I do not know, but better safe then sorry.

Sun

Does pure natural vanilla have vanillin in it, or only artificial vanilla?

[satoshi]

Do we know how hot it has to get to be toxic in vapor form? I'm a fan of vanilla flavors...

[logbas34]

OK here's something weird. I just got my vanilla flavored e-liquid yesturday, today i woke with this weird abdominal pain. when I lie down, i get this pain that comes up for about 5 sec, then goes away then reappears 1 min later. It's not mid-day and it's not as bad but im worried if it's the vanilla e-liquid cause i stopped vaping it. anybody know what it could be? its the upper abdomen. It could be maybe an ulcer because ive been taking low-dose aspirin but it still scares me.

[v1John]

I have never heard of anybody dying from baking vanilla cookies or cakes. If you ask me even if it's not "safe" to vape, it's still got to be safer than analogs. I've actually heard that mixing vanilla with paint makes the paint fumes less toxic.

baking vanilla is a different ballgame, the fumes dissipate in the oven, and also people don't eat the cookies at 300 degrees

vaping vanillin vapor, on the other hand, is actually on a different pipe. In the lungs, fumes are not digested with hydrochloric acid, and the bloodstream is designed to have a large area of immediate accessibility

...But whether or not it's toxicologically harmful?...I don't know
If it is, ...well, I suppose there are plenty of other fish flavors in the ocean

interesting thread tho

[CartHeadMod]

VANILLIN EMERGENCY FIRST AID MEASURES
• Inhalation:Remove to fresh air.If not breathing,give artificial respiration.If breathing is difficult,give oxygen.

Vanillin - Human Nutrition

[v1John]

The op talks about baking it at what 200 degrees C? And cartheadmod's link indicates that vanillin's flash and boiling point is at 147 and 170 degrees.

What I still don't understand is what if vanillin is gone, can it still taste like vanilla?
Where is there a simple reference that can state that yoou can have a vanilla flavor present after removing vanillin?