propylene glycol, and glycerine...... see this, if you havent already.

[kristin]

Kristin just about explained it all when she correctly cites the use of PG as the vehical in Asthma Inhalers as well as NRT"s such as Nicotrol all having spent millions of dollars on studies and obtaining FDA approval.

So if you are looking for the ultimate stamp of approval---PG has it by the FDA.


Sun

And I just found a site (put a link in my last post) that says it's been used in inhalers since the 50's. I didn't realize it's been used in inhalers for so long!

Although, I thought that Nicotrol inhalers had a solid of some kind in it - or is it just super thick PG? I know one member tried taking one apart to see if it had liquid and he said it was a solid.

[Sun Vaporer]

And I just found a site (put a link in my last post) that says it's been used in inhalers since the 50's. I didn't realize it's been used in inhalers for so long!

Although, I thought that Nicotrol inhalers had a solid of some kind in it - or is it just super thick PG? I know one member tried taking one apart to see if it had liquid and he said it was a solid.

Kristin--Nicotrol mixes the nicotine with the PG just like e-liquid. the e-liquid needs a suspention and PG is what actually comes out.


Sun

[V4Lis4me]

OK,

because I was aware where this post would head, I must play devil's advocate..... This will bring some great information for all, and hopefully alleviate my qualms in the process as well.

My girlfriend, who is a severe asthmatic, uses inhalers on a regular basis. She also uses a nebulizer for severe cases. As well as a slew of other pills (prednisone, and many..many more) on a daily basis.
I have read the ingredients lists on all inhaled meds of hers, and none list propylene glycol as an ingredient. Most use a saline solution that is balanced for Ph, with the nebulizer formula included (albuterol).
What inhalers do use PG as a base?


Also for drug therapys, IV bases mainly in question....
I will cite this finding:
Nature Clinical Practice Nephrology | Acute kidney injury, hyperosmolality and metabolic acidosis associated with lorazepam | Article

please read the whole article for the complete information.
..
cited directly from source above:
Discussion of diagnosis

Propylene glycol (1,2-propanediol) is commonly used as a solvent in intravenous, oral and topical pharmaceutical preparations (Table 2).1, 2, 3, 4, 5 The agent is generally considered safe, but large doses can be toxic, particularly if they are given over a short period of time. Of the commonly used intravenous drugs containing propylene glycol, intravenous lorazepam contains the largest proportion of the compound.

as well as...
Accumulation of propylene glycol leads to increased osmolality and lactic acidosis, which in turn causes hyperosmolality and high anion gap metabolic acidosis. Studies have shown accumulation of propylene glycol in patients who have received a high-dose lorazepam infusion for as little as 48 hours.2 AKI in propylene glycol toxicity has been suggested to be caused by proximal tubular injury.6

and...
The World Health Organization recommends a maximum dietary propylene glycol intake of 25 mg/kg/day (i.e. 1,875 mg/day for a 75 kg male).17 The patient described here received an average intravenous propylene glycol dose of 212 g/day (2,827 mg/kg/day).
Clinical presentation of propylene glycol toxicity

Classically, propylene glycol toxicity results in lactic acidosis, hyperosmolality and renal failure.1, 2, 3, 4, 17, 18 Clinical presentation of this condition varies widely, however, sometimes even mimicking sepsis or systemic inflammatory response syndrome (Box 1).1 If unrecognized and left untreated, the toxic effects of propylene glycol can progress from metabolic acidosis to fatal multiorgan failure.


As noted in the top paragraph (highlighted) the PT was recieving very large doses of PG. Athough, this in my mind does show concern as well.

As I have stated previously, please allow an open conversation of this topic. All views are more than welcome.

[kristin]

Kristin--Nicotrol mixes the nicotine with the PG just like e-liquid. the e-liquid needs a suspention and PG is what actually comes out.


Sun

Sun, this was bugging me so I looked it up. No PG in Nicotrol. Ingredients are listed as nicoine, menthol and a "porous plug."

Nicotrol Inhaler(nicotine inhalation system)10 mg per cartridge(4 mg delivered)

[V4Lis4me]

directly from phizer....
about the nicotrol inhaler....
http://media.pfizer.com/files/produc...i_nicotrol.pdf

quoted....
Each 10 mL spray bottle contains 100 mg nicotine (10 mg/mL) in an inactive vehicle
containing disodium phosphate, sodium dihydrogen phosphate, citric acid,
methylparaben, propylparaben, edetate disodium, sodium chloride, polysorbate 80, aroma
and water. The solution is isotonic with a pH of 7. It contains no chlorofluorocarbons


the nicotrol inhaler does not contain propylene glycol.

[V4Lis4me]

Sun, this was bugging me so I looked it up. No PG in Nicotrol. Ingredients are listed as nicoine, menthol and a "porous plug."

Nicotrol Inhaler(nicotine inhalation system)10 mg per cartridge(4 mg delivered)

you are correct, no PG in nicotrol inhalers....
the exact suspension formula is in my above post. (view the link)

[Sun Vaporer]

you are correct, no PG in nicotrol inhalers....
the exact suspension formula is in my above post. (view the link)

It is in one of their forumlations, as I spoke with them on the phone some time back. Again, I am not concerned about it---but you continue on if you are.


Sun

[V4Lis4me]

I've read these many, many times.

factoid: They use propylene glycol in asthma inhalers. People who have sensitive lungs use those inhalers. If it was so bad to inhale, wouldn't there have been massive recalls of those inhalers?




MSDS Sheets are usually worst case scenarios, with excessive exposure or people with certain conditions that make them higher risk. They are CYA for companies - same as those disclaimers on drug commercials. They have to list every known reaction that anyone ever had as a possible risk, even if it wouldn't even affect 99% of the people.

Health Canada cited PG simply as a "known irritant" in it's attempt to scare people. Sure, it's on the MSDS as a possible irritant - to people who have never smoked a pack a day of toxic tobacco. We were sucking in ammonia and arsenic. I highly doubt it'd be an irritant to most former smokers! lol

Not trying to be outright mean here, but ehow is not a reputable source of information.

So on the asthma inhaler claim, I have personally checked all of my girlfriends inhalation solutions..... none of which list proplyene glycol as an ingredient.

Only in syrup or oral administrations did i find propylene glycol in the main albuterol delivery system (which she is not prescribed, she only has inhalation formulas)... This is direct from the credible source:
Albuterol Syrup Official FDA information, side effects and uses.


Albuterol sulfate has a molecular weight of 576.70 and the molecular formula is (C13H21NO3)2•H2SO4. Albuterol sulfate is a white crystalline powder, soluble in water and slightly soluble in ethanol.
The World Health Organization recommended name for albuterol base is salbutamol.
Albuterol Sulfate Syrup for oral administration contains 2 mg of albuterol as 2.4 mg of albuterol sulfate in each teaspoonful (5 mL). Albuterol Sulfate Syrup also contains the inactive ingredients citric acid, FD&C Yellow #6, flavor enhancer, hypromellose, propylene glycol, purified water, sodium benzoate, sodium citrate, strawberry flavor. Sodium hydroxide may be added to adjust pH.



My girlfriends inhalation ingredients of the same drug list this:

INGREDENTS:
Active: Albuterol (0.83 mg/ml) as the sulfate

Inactive: Sodium chloride, edetate disodium, sodium citrate, hydrochloric acid (to adjust pH between 3 and 5), and purified water.


*note how the inhalation is now devoid of the propylene glycol that is in question, for the same drug.

[V4Lis4me]

It is in one of their forumlations, as I spoke with them on the phone some time back. Again, I am not concerned about it---but you continue on if you are.


Sun

The purpose for this post was not to argue with an individual personally, but simply to have an in depth discussion of the chemicals we use on a daily basis. I would love information as to the formulation that you speak of personally, as this would help me with my qualms of the ecigs that I use daily. If you can provide a link for the formulation that you speak of, I would greatly appreciate it.

I feel that all should have rebuttals to this debate, and substantiated claims are the basis for a great wealth of knowledge. I am only seeking to enlighten myself and others, not to harm individuals in the process. I am playing the dark role here, but that will only entice others to dig deeper into the depths to seek the knowledge that may ease the minds of many... as well as myself. It is all in the pursuit of knowledge, specifically on our body chemistrys and specific reactions to foreign stimulii.

[Sun Vaporer]

The purpose for this post was not to argue with an individual personally, but simply to have an in depth discussion of the chemicals we use on a daily basis. I would love information as to the formulation that you speak of personally, as this would help me with my qualms of the ecigs that I use daily. If you can provide a link for the formulation that you speak of, I would greatly appreciate it.

I feel that all should have rebuttals to this debate, and substantiated claims are the basis for a great wealth of knowledge. I am only seeking to enlighten myself and others, not to harm individuals in the process. I am playing the dark role here, but that will only entice others to dig deeper into the depths to seek the knowledge that may ease the minds of many... as well as myself. It is all in the pursuit of knowledge, specifically on our body chemistrys and specific reactions to foreign stimulii.

Excellent--you play dark and digg deep---What we are saying is that this is new to you and you should satisfy yourself and have an open discussion about it until you feel you have come upon the right information that makes you feel comfortable. And if you can not find it with others---then do not use the e-cig--use some other alternative, quit, or go back to analogs. A couple of people tried to chime in and gave their opinions.

If you are looking for anything more then opinions you are not going to find them as extensive and long term testing have not been done to any great degree.


Sun