propylene glycol, and glycerine...... see this, if you havent already.

[jamie]

Propylene glycol is a tobacco products additive.
Tobacco Documents | Profiles | Additives | Propylene Glycol

[DWTaylor]

see now the thing is we do want to know what is the health risks we are taking. I thank you for finding the information and posting it.
BUT if you are really that worried I might suggest that you look into pills, gum, patch, snuz, or snuff to help quit.
Cause I know that if I were to see someone go to this length to tell others how bad it is and then continue to use said product I know I would lose all respect in them.
So I'll end this post of mine with a thanks for the information, and the time getting that information, and sorry that this great product isn't for you.

[fast12345]

stupid question so is vg safer then pg or is she saying both could be bad for you?

[V4Lis4me]

Excellent--you play dark and digg deep---What we are saying is that this is new to you and you should satisfy yourself and have an open discussion about it until you feel you have come upon the right information that makes you feel comfortable. And if you can not find it with others---then do not use the e-cig--use some other alternative, quit, or go back to analogs. A couple of people tried to chime in and gave their opinions.

If you are looking for anything more then opinions you are not going to find them as extensive and long term testing have not been done to any great degree.


Sun

Very well put indeed. Personally, I hadn't invested much time in the area previous to this. So I was startled to say the least. We all are in fact the "guinea pigs" so to speak. What I do find greatly reassuring is the fact that the overwhelming majority seem to tolerate ecigs just fine.

[inicapem]

I don't understand why people seem to get so upset on this forum when someone posts about the "potential" long-term health issues of PG and VG. No one knows for sure, so what is wrong with looking at different research, posting it, and discussing it? Why is it so necessary to close our eyes? I am very happy that I found ecigs, but I'm not going to fool myself that there may not be repercussions down the line - it is my choice and I am taking that chance. But that shouldn't rule out my wanting to know more info as studies come out. This shouldn’t be so black & white, i.e. either you’re with us or against us mentality.

As for the asthma inhaler debate, my BF also has asthma and I read the ingredients on his inhaler and did not see PG. Other brands may have it though. But I really find that a moot point. People don't suck on inhalers like we suck on ecigs. They use it when their lungs are constricted which could mean they don't use it for days or even months at a time, which as the OP's article said “CHRONIC EXPOSURE”. Asthma inhaler usage is NOT chronic exposure, nor is eating cookies. However, most people use ecigs chronically.

The OP is not trying to scare anyone, just reporting on research he found and wanting to have a discussion. Are we only supposed to post and discuss pro PG/VG/E-cig articles? That seems like a great disservice to the community. I believe in looking at all sides of a topic, whether I agree with them or not.

[kristin]

I don't understand why people seem to get so upset on this forum when someone posts about the "potential" long-term health issues of PG and VG.

Who got "upset?" All I've seen is a discussion on whether or not PG is safe to inhale.

Just because you support that PG is safe to inhale doesn't mean you are "upset." I don't know anyone on ECF who wouldn't like confirmation that they are what we expect - safer than tobacco smoke.

The only time I get a little upset is when people seem to have the expectation that ecigs should be 100% safe. That is an unreasonable expectation, because EVERY drug has possible side effects for someone.

Here are the potential reactions from using Proventil inhalers, which do not list PG as an ingerdient: Inhalation Aerosol include: dysphonia, increased sweating, dry mouth, chest pain, edema, rigors, ataxia, leg cramps, hyperkinesia, eructation, flatulence, tinnitus, diabetes mellitus, anxiety, depression, somnolence, rash. Palpitation and dizziness have also been observed with PROVENTIL HFA Inhalation Aerosol.

If it's ok for that FDA-approved product, why is PG any worse?

Rhinarus Mist, sold OTC for dry nasal passages contains PG: Rhinaris • Your TOTAL nasal hygiene solution!

I can't find ingredient lists for inhalers, but I do know a few members have posted that their personal asthma inhaler listed PG in the ingredients.

[inicapem]

Who got "upset?" All I've seen is a discussion on whether or not PG is safe to inhale.


If it's ok for that FDA-approved product, why is PG any worse?

First off, I personally don't leave my safety up to the FDA, many drugs have been approved, later to be recalled with deadly consequences. But let's go with your argument that PG is approved by the FDA as GRAS - "generally recognized as safe". What you are forgetting is that it is recognized as safe in certain quantities. We know very little about the long term affects of CHRONIC USAGE. As I stated before, using an asthma inhaler or eating cookies is NOT CHRONIC USAGE.

As for my comment that this topic seems to make people on this board upset, that’s just the feeling I’ve gotten reading through different threads on these issues. Many responses to OPs are “you’re trying to scare us” or “then maybe ecigs aren’t for you”. Perhaps it’s just the threads I’ve read, but there seems to be a lot of with us or against us mentality, with little room for discussion on legitimate long term health concerns.

[kristin]

The more I Google this, the more it seems that PG is actually believed to be CAUSING asthma in some people. I see a lot of patents for devices to use PG for asthma, but I can't find any that list PG in the inhalers - only the oral medications.

Of course, asthmatic people shouldn't be smoking, either! My sister-in-law smoked and had asthma and she's doing better using the ecigs. Go figure.

But it's hard to believe that we can safetly drink PG or inject PG directly into our viens, but we can't inhale it. That just doesn't make any sense. I do remember reading some report that said PG doesn't build up in the human body, so, logically, it would be absorbed by the lung tissue and then flushed out of the system.

HSDB Search Results - Frameset

[kristin]

First off, I personally don't leave my safety up to the FDA, many drugs have been approved, later to be recalled with deadly consequences. But let's go with your argument that PG is approved by the FDA as GRAS - "generally recognized as safe". What you are forgetting is that it is recognized as safe in certain quantities. We know very little about the long term affects of CHRONIC USAGE. As I stated before, using an asthma inhaler or eating cookies is NOT CHRONIC USAGE.

As for my comment that this topic seems to make people on this board upset, that’s just the feeling I’ve gotten reading through different threads on these issues. Many responses to OPs are “you’re trying to scare us” or “then maybe ecigs aren’t for you”. Perhaps it’s just the threads I’ve read, but there seems to be a lot of with us or against us mentality, with little room for discussion on legitimate long term health concerns.

The point of my FDA comment was just that - everyone here knows the FDA has approved worse products. That was my point. There is NOTHING 100% safe on the market today, just FDA-approved bad side effects.

Some people do get upset, because if you're here long enough, you'll see trolls condemning ecigs without proof and just scare-mongering. And this topic is found in dozens of old threads.

I think many people get upset for the same reasons I stated - we were SMOKING before. We were exposing ourselves to thousands of toxins and hundreds of carcinogens in high levels. It seems ridiculously demanding to expect ecigs to not only be 4,000 times less toxic than tobacco smoke, but to also be 100% safe. There is no such thing, not even in FDA-approved medications. There will always be side effects of putting anything foriegn in the human body, some people will experience worse rather than better.

Of all the things in ecigs, PG is the least risk. It's used in oral medications, injectable medications and inhaled medications and there are scant few reports of PG poisoning or adverse reactions as a result. It breaks down and is flushed from the human body within 2 days of ingestion. If it were a huge danger, more people would be coming forward with adverse reactions after 5 years on the market.

It just seems so trivial to get up-in-arms over a "known mild irritant" like PG when most of us were inhaling a tar, arsenic, acetone, butane, carbon monoxide, hydrogen cyanide and ammonia cocktail a few months ago.

If people have any long-term health concerns, the answer is logical and simple - they should quit inhaling foriegn substances into their lungs, because nothing is 100% safe to inhale.

Discussing the long-term effects of PG is absurd, unless you're talking about how it compares to smoking tobacco, because most of us would otherwise be smoking. The only place this concern would be "legitimate" is if ecigs were an NRT, which they are not for most people.

If anything is a legitimate concern, it's the flavorings - THOSE are the great unkown. But whatever the risk, it's still a hell of a lot less than smoking tobacco.

[5cardstud]

Well also you take extremely more risk driving than flying but I see the freeways are very congested today and there is alot of room in the sky and what about charbroiled hamburgers? There is as much tar in a charbroiled hamburger as there is in a pack of cigs but everybody still has meat bbqing on the grill every summer. Life is dangerous and if it comes to smoking with 1000s of chemicals proved to be bad or vaping with a chemical that is suspect and is also already in the foodchain I'll pick vaping anyday.
P. S. Kristin has it right.