propylene glycol, and glycerine...... see this, if you havent already.

[VallyGrlOR]

Thank you voltaire, not sure why those didn't come up in my searches. Sorry for the OT.

[Drozd]

[QUOTE=V4Lis4me;998973]Not trying to be outright mean here, but ehow is not a reputable source of information.

QUOTE]

Since ehow is not a reputable source of info (really I dont mean for that to sound snarky)...
Here are some other resources that might prove helpful
Time:
Medicine: Air Germicide - TIME
Journal of pharmacology:
TESTS FOR THE CHRONIC TOXICITY OF PROPYLEXE GLYCOL AND TRIETHYLENE GLYCOL ON MONKEYS AND RATS BY VAPOR INHALATION AND ORAL ADMINISTRATION ? JPET
British Medical Journal- occupational and enviromental medicine (have to sign up for free)
Sign In

CDC - Agency for Toxic Substances & Disease Registry
Ethylene Glycol and Propylene Glycol Toxicity: What is Propylene Glycol | ATSDR - Environmental Medicine & Environmental Health Education - CSEM

Hopefully these are more reputable resources for you..I know that based on these and the lack of any real substantial research in VG ..that for me, my preference is for PG..

EDIT:
oh and one more reference:
NASA - published by the National Academies Press
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?re...12529&page=314

[basic_atheist]

I was wondering if any diabetics have had problems with their blood sugar levels with using either PG or VG. The info I have found is that both are converted into glucose in the body. I am a type 2 diabetic and I am not on medication, trying to control it naturally (one of the reasons I want to stop smoking analogs! ) anyway I searched for about an hour now and can't find anyone discussing this, so was wondering if there are any other diabetics vaping? I saw one lady say she was a type 1?

Yes, I'm a type 2 diabetic and I vape about 1.43ml per day. That is, a 30ml bottle of 24mg juice will last me about 21 days.

I've experimented with both PG and VG based liquids and kept a record of my blood pressure and glucose levels. Many people are saying VG is healthier, but that hasn't been my experience. I had to adjust my diet because of VG since it did raise my blood sugar about 24 mg/dL above my daily target. I'm subject to pancreas inflammation, so I have to watch myself closely. However, I also noticed the glucose levels differ between other flavors of VG mixes. For example a rootbeer flavor increases my blood sugar more than a menthol flavor will. But, the reason why rootbeer is worse is because I have a habit of licking the excess liquid from the bottom sides of the cartridge when switching it out. I can't help it, rootbeer VG tastes delicious! I don't do that with menthol VG though, I just like the cooling sensation menthol gives to my windpipe. Another thing is I sometimes drip vape on a high volt mod and when the coil gets red hot it splatters tiny drops of VG into my mouth. Since there is an oral variable in vaping combined with tissue absorption, I don't think VG is suitable for all diabetics. You can still try it, but please be careful. Not everybody is the same and so your results may be better than mine.

I don't have a problem with PG. It seems to be much more suitable for me. I can't detect any change in my blood sugar while using it. I've tried blueberry, vanilla, and menthol PG mixes. Vanilla tastes the sweetest, but still no change in blood sugar. I prefer menthol most of the time.

Another thing you should pay attention to is your blood pressure and note any differences between PG and VG. Looking back at my records while vaping VG I see I'm in the Hypertensive zone on average. When I switch to PG my blood pressure slowly drops back into normal ranges and stabilizes within 3 days. I finally decided to mix down the remaining VG I had left and cut it with a PG based liquid (half-n-half). My blood pressure is still borderline hypertensive, but it's not nearly as bad while I was using a straight VG mix. When I run out of the cut VG mixes, I promise not to vape any VG ever again!!!

I was curious about why vaping VG was doing these things to me so quickly. I soon learned it has something to do with the scorching of vegetable fats and causing a slightly higher acrolein reaction which does happen in the atomizer unit of the e-cig, and especially so with a high volt mod. You can smell it when it happens, it smells like burnt grease. Some people interpret it as a good "throat hit", but that is actually a warning sign to bring down the temperature. They also interpret it as an "awesome vapor cloud", but its actually a trace of smoke in the vapor cloud that makes it look so cool. It's not enough to be flammable, but it should be enough to cause a little concern... especially since acrolein was used as a chemical weapon during WWI. It's a choking agent tear gas which may effect some users more than others. So if any VG user is wondering why their eyes are slightly irritated more than what PG does, then now you know.

But anywho, after learning about all of that, combined with my personal experiences, I would have to say that VG is bad. That doesn't get PG off the hook either, I'm just saying PG is the lesser of the two evils when it comes to vaping. I have less trouble with PG and it seems to suit me better. And besides, PG works better in my 510's. VG has destroyed 2 of my atty's in half the time it takes PG to do it in. Gee, I wonder why e-cigs were designed to run PG based liquids to begin with? Hmmm... could it be that the inventors and the professional lab techs actually know what they are doing? When it comes to new products which fall short of proper field testing, I think it's safer to follow the manufacturers recommendations a bit closer. Don't ya think?

The BA has spoken.

[V4Lis4me]

[QUOTE=Drozd;1021135]

Not trying to be outright mean here, but ehow is not a reputable source of information.

QUOTE]

Since ehow is not a reputable source of info (really I dont mean for that to sound snarky)...
Here are some other resources that might prove helpful
Time:
Medicine: Air Germicide - TIME
Journal of pharmacology:
TESTS FOR THE CHRONIC TOXICITY OF PROPYLEXE GLYCOL AND TRIETHYLENE GLYCOL ON MONKEYS AND RATS BY VAPOR INHALATION AND ORAL ADMINISTRATION ? JPET
British Medical Journal- occupational and enviromental medicine (have to sign up for free)
Sign In

CDC - Agency for Toxic Substances & Disease Registry
Ethylene Glycol and Propylene Glycol Toxicity: What is Propylene Glycol | ATSDR - Environmental Medicine & Environmental Health Education - CSEM

Hopefully these are more reputable resources for you..I know that based on these and the lack of any real substantial research in VG ..that for me, my preference is for PG..

EDIT:
oh and one more reference:
NASA - published by the National Academies Press
Spacecraft Maximum Allowable Concentrations for Selected Airborne Contaminants: Volume 5

its not snarky,
what you posted are reputable sources.......

ehow, still is not.... whether what was stated ends up being correct or not.

[JohnnyVapor]

those are very small quantities....
vaping entails a direct consumption of the pure product.

V4Lis4me, I don't want to sound like too much of an ass here, but we're only consuming a very small amount.

First, consider your daily intake. How many mLs are you consuming? I personally vape 2-3mLs daily.

Secondly, consider how much of those 2-3mLs are actually being deposited internally. I'm not sure of the percentage, but if you're blowing out vapor it's not all of it. For these purposes, lets say 50% is being deposited. We are now at 1-1.5mLs/day.

Third, we have to ignore the amount vapor deposited in the mouth, as that will likely be mixed with saliva and swallowed(a known safe route:reference). Again, this amount is a total guess, but 25% of the remainder sounds fair(I know I'm doing this backwards, mouth deposition would be before exhaling). We're now looking at .75-1.125mLs/day.

At this low of a level, I wouldn't perceive any major health effects, apart from people who may be sensitive to PG. The NIH seems to agree based on a preclinical test of inhaled cyclosporine in PG. You might be better served putting more thought into the flavorings used, or even the nicotine, which is proven to be highly toxic.

[Drozd]

V4Lis4me, I don't want to sound like too much of an ass here, but we're only consuming a very small amount.

First, consider your daily intake. How many mLs are you consuming? I personally vape 2-3mLs daily.

Secondly, consider how much of those 2-3mLs are actually being deposited internally. I'm not sure of the percentage, but if you're blowing out vapor it's not all of it. For these purposes, lets say 50% is being deposited. We are now at 1-1.5mLs/day.

Third, we have to ignore the amount vapor deposited in the mouth, as that will likely be mixed with saliva and swallowed(a known safe route:reference). Again, this amount is a total guess, but 25% of the remainder sounds fair(I know I'm doing this backwards, mouth deposition would be before exhaling). We're now looking at .75-1.125mLs/day.

At this low of a level, I wouldn't perceive any major health effects, apart from people who may be sensitive to PG. The NIH seems to agree based on a preclinical test of inhaled cyclosporine in PG. You might be better served putting more thought into the flavorings used, or even the nicotine, which is proven to be highly toxic.

I don't even think that that much is actually being deposited to our lungs internally..this was taken from the NASA research:
Because the solubility of PG in water is high, one might expect that any inhaled vapor reaching the lungs would be very well absorbed by the lung and metabolized by the liver in a fashion similar to its metabolism from an ingested dose, although one might expect some quantitative differences. Cavender and Sowinski (1994) described a work in which humans were exposed to 10% PG in a mist tent with labeled deionized water. Less than 5% of the mist entered the body and, of this amount, 90% lodged in the nasopharynx and disappeared in the stomach; very little was found in the lungs. It appears that most of the inhaled PG aerosol becomes trapped in the upper respiratory tract and does not reach the lungs.

[KermieD]

I think a key point here is that propylene glycol has only shown toxic effects in very acute doses, and cumulative exposure is not an issue as it breaks down completely and naturally. A couple of points to note from the CDC:

* Propylene glycol is used in various foods, cosmetics, and pharmaceutical products.
* Propylene glycol toxicity is not expected in normal environmental or occupational exposures.
* Propylene glycol toxicity is metabolized to compounds that are normal constituents of the citric acid cycle.
* Large doses and unusual circumstances are necessary for the development of propylene glycol toxicity.

Ethylene Glycol and Propylene Glycol Toxicity: What is Propylene Glycol | ATSDR - Environmental Medicine & Environmental Health Education - CSEM

[Tuesday]

When I was smoking cigarettes I was so completely addicted I never bothered to investigate about all the chemicals in the cigs, and I knew for a fact it was harming me. Cigarette addiction is just like any other addiction and the addict just looks for his next fix which was a cigarette in my case. If I ran out of cigs at 2:00 a.m. I would jump in my car and get to any 7-11 or any store that was opened to buy a pack of cigs never once worried about my safety at 2:00 a.m. in a fairly large city. Now that I am using e-cigs only I have calmed down and I do read the health issues possibly associated with e-cigs. I think this is all a bit ironic when considering the over 4.000 chemicals I ingested for years and never once looked a single chemical and its health risks!!

[xsquid]

...[Then] the researchers found that the propylene glycol itself was a potent germicide. One part of glycol in 2,000,000 parts of air would—within a few seconds—kill concentrations of air-suspended pneumococci, streptococci and other bacteria numbering millions to the cubic foot.

Time magazine

I see Thor beat me to it, but I thought I'd post a quote instead of a link. I'm just new, but are you sure that you are not researching industrial PG vice food-grade?

[xsquid]

P.S.--The experiments mentioned above relate to inhaling vaporized food grade PG.