Propylene glycol inhaling?

[TropicalBob]

Great. Polyester fumes from filter fibers and now PG. But thanks for bringing the disturbing article to our attention. It fortifies what lab rats we are for this totally untested use of a Dow Chemical product that the maker says we should stay out of when it's used for theatrical fog.

But I note this in the article: “The natural alternative would be ‘glycerol’ when flavor is not an issue for a supplier.”

"Glycerol, a byproduct of bio-diesel production, serves as a humectant, a solvent, a filler in commercially prepared low-fat baked goods, a thickening agent in liqueurs, and it may help preserve foods. As a sweetener, it has approximately 27 calories per teaspoon and is 60% as sweet as sucrose, but does not raise blood sugar levels, nor does it feed the bacteria that form plaques and cause dental cavities. The EWG rated it as a two, a very low hazard.

"Propylene Glycol has its place. The consumer will need to decide if that place is in his food, medicine and cosmetics. At least, it would seem most healthful to read labels and to limit foods and personal care products which contain PG."

Note in another post that Dr. Loi is now testing vegetable glycerine (glycerol) in place of propylene glycol. I've been using vegetable glycerine mixed with home-cooked tobacco liquid and pure extract flavors with alcohol. So far, so good. And the stuff tastes great, compared to the bland flavors of e-liquids.

I gotta think on this one ...

[Nazareth]

Yeah I noted that abotu hte Glycerin and wondered if it could be done- The thign is that it's got sugar in it which it might perhaps clog the atomizer a bit, but sugar breaks down in water well enough to clean it I'd think. I almost looked into buying some PPG today to make myu own smokin juice, but I'm thiunking I might just hold off and try the glycerine myself instead.

The thing is, I sit aroudn and smoke regualr ciggs all day long, which have a couple hundred known dangerous chemicals, whichb are all burned and manipulated with heat, and yet when it coems to just one product (PPG) which 'might' cause a few problems, I get all worried and nervous about it, lol- I'm just wierd that way I guess.

Two questions- how do you cook down your tobacco? (Like how long, to what consistency etc), and what about all the chemicals in the actual tobacco? Won't they transfere to the smokin juice and when heated by atomization still be carcinogetic? I wonder if maybe pure all natural tobacco- maybe even leaf tobacco might be better for cookign down than regular Cigg tobacco? (Although I think even just the tobacco itself has stuff in it without the addition of all the chemicals put in durign production- meh- we smokers can't win )

I've decided I will be a lab rat as my particular health issues are kinda not so great & a roll of the dice is not really too big a deal to me healthwise, but I'd liek it to be as 'safe' as possible (I don't have a deathwish, but I don't really have a 'life-wish' either- so come what may, it's all been a wierd wacky rollercoaster trip for me- come what may, I've had a lot of fun mostly, but now if I can help others by being a bit of labrat, it's ok to me, just want it to be safe as possible though- don't want ot grow another eye or sprout wings out my ears due to some wierd mutation caused by soem untested chemical or anythign if I can help it)- I'll be doing a lot of E-Smoking experimenting and posting here in forums

[leaford]

That does raise concerns. I knew there had been lots of studies conducted on PG, I did not know there were so many contradictory studies. This seems like a pretty thorough and even-handed review, but it doesn't give much of a picture of the overall balance. It mentions individual studies that conclude either no risk, or risk, but gives no picture of what the ratio between the two is overall. I'm not accusing them of giving a slanted impression, but that is a possibility and I need to know more. A handful of studies which conclude that PG is linked to harm might mean something if it's out of 10 studies conducted; but probably means less if it's out of 200.

I am also thinking that their opening line reveals in inherent bias: "Mention Propylene Glycol (PG) to most people and they will probably tell you that it is a toxin." Really? Most people I mention Propylene Glycol to don't have a freaking clue what it is. I suppose maybe people who automatically associate any unknown chemical with poison would tell you that. The same people who assume DiHydrogen Oxide is a toxin.

[Nazareth]

Well I've been doing a little research, & it seems the science isn't settled, and as you state, it goes both ways- Stage actors and stage unions think it is, while production managers think it only bothers sensitive people- the following link was kind of interestign to read through. (note, I tried just a dab of mineral oil on the filter tonight- Uggggh- don't do it- it smoked liek crazy, and the vapour hung in the air longer than PPG, and actually was less harsh breathign in, but got a bit of a headache from it and it tasted awful- some reports say water-based vapours are a bit better fur us than the oil ones- but I'll reserarch a bit more tom,orrow, see what I can find out.)
Here's the link http://www.mindfully.org/Health/Stage-Fog-Risk.htm

[masterslave]

HAPPY FATHERS DAY
Another study?


Public health ministry orders study of e-cigarettes

BANGKOK, June 13 (TNA) – Public Health Minister Chaiya Sasomsab ordered a study on information of electronic cigarettes to find measures to prevent importing e-cigarettes to Thailand because existing law doesn't cover the new product.

The e- cigarette consists of a cartridge, an atomizer, and a rechargeable battery. It doesn't contain tobacco but it has nicotine, propylene glycol, a chemical used in a fog machine, and fruity taste. Each cartridge is the equivalent of 15 conventional cigarettes.

The public health minister said that although e-cigarettes don't emit smoke, they pose harm to smokers with the level of nicotine higher than found in conventional cigarettes.

He ordered the Food and Drug Administration to conduct a study of e-cigarettes and to discuss with agencies concerned to draw out preventive measures.

Mr. Chaiya said the target group of this new product is young people as they are eager to try a new thing.

He added that the intake of nicotine is approximately 50 microgrammes for each inhalation. The substance can cause harm to heart and blood vessels.

The level of nicotine in blood as high as 25-50 nanogrammes per millilitre can increase a risk of having Ischemic heart disease (IHD). (TNA)

General News : Last Update : 17:54:32 13 June 2008 (GMT+7:00)

[Nazareth]

Hmm- I thought the Nicotine was lower than regular cigarettes? I think the government just wants ot keep peopel addicted to regular cigarettes- that way they can regulate and tax the snot out of people- Besides, there are several nicotine level cartridges you can use, and hte device can and does help people cut down on their nicotine consumptions over time- you'd think that governments would be going goo goo over hte product because it's a help to people health-wise, but apparently, the governments' who claim to be 'looking out for' the health of their citizens are lying through their nicotine stained teeth.

Found an article on "Atomized Alcohol" today- Remember hte "Oxygen Bars" that were popular awhile back? Seems some entrepeneur came up with the brilliant idea of atomizing Alcohol-

Atomized Alcohol- all the buzz- none of the bother of hangovers- only problem is that it takes minutes to get the equivilent of shot of liquor, and hte 'buzz' wears off in 5 minutes

http://www.portlandphoenix.com/featu...s/04673443.asp

[TropicalBob]

There's an entire thread in Law and the E-Cigarette on the Thailand story. Also a thread (maybe in Health here) on vaporizing alcohol, which the Florida Legislature instantly outlawed. And I mean instantly. One story came out of Fort Lauderdale of a bar offering it, triggering government involvement, and those devices cannot be sold or used in Florida. But there are many ways around the ban ... Keep Googling the Web if you care about this. Hint: Ever heard of dry ice?

[Nazareth]

Smoking Dry Ice? Never heard of that- just that it does produce vapour- waterbased

Just found some McCormick's Coconut a another Rum extract that has PPG in it- giving it a try now- Coconut is a bit strong- gonna have to water it down some I recon- cooking up some tobacco right now to do so. Smokin it strsaight gives off a good cloud of vapour- just dropped one tiny drop into empty Cart to see how it'd work- it's got 25% alcohol in it though

[TropicalBob]

There are some YouTube videos of alcohol poured over dry ice in a travel cup. The vapor shoots out the sip opening! The guys get drunk in 5 minutes. Not for me!

[Minus Sign]

Yes, DOW did studies on PG. Wiki uses them as a source, which answers your question: "Inhalation of the propylene glycol vapors appears to present no significant hazard in ordinary applications. However, limited human experience indicates that inhalation of propylene glycol mists could be irritating to some individuals. Therefore inhalation exposure to mists of these materials should be avoided. Some research has suggested that propylene glycol not be used in applications where inhalation exposure or human eye contact with the spray mists of these materials is likely, such as fogs for theatrical productions or antifreeze solutions for emergency eye wash stations." Firefox 3 is experiencing some teething problems with certain applications, including acrobat, or I'd quote directly from DOW.

So, not recommended, possibly irritating, but no known lasting health effects yet for most people.

As for the article on page 1...I lose a certain level of trust when I see watchdog groups cited for scientific information. They have a tendency to distort what hey want to suit their purposes. Call me skeptical, but any wing politic+science=skewed results. Of course EWG finds PG to be toxic; the more toxic chemicals they find, the more funding the get.

Keep an open mind to information as its presented, to be sure, but remember: watchdogs like to bark.