12-07-2010, 12:10 AM
Your concerns are valid, to be sure. I have often commented on my concerns that vaping, being an untested activity, is potentially every bit as dangerous as smoking, although possibly in different ways. There have been a lot of posts, for example, on the use of the chemical diactyl in the manufacture of e-juice. Diactyl has been known, in large, inhaled quantities, to lead to an irreversible, fatal lung disorder known as "popcorn lung", because diactyl is used in the butter flavoring found in microwave popcorn.
Originally Posted by StarsAndBars
My feeling on the issue is that I believe vaping to be safer than smoking, if not entirely safe. I am fairly comfortable in that belief, but I still try to limit my vaping more than I cut back on my smoking. I have been known to chain vape from time-to-time, but mostly I reserve it for times when I am seriously craving a smoke. Fortunately, those times are becoming increasingly rare the longer I stay tobacco-free.
Although we are all now aware that vaping is not proven for smoking cessation (per the FDA), I have a supply of juice that ranges from 24mg nicotine all the way down to 0mg, and I have a plan to "step down" every three months or so (or when my supply of higher nicotine juice runs out, whichever comes first). I hope, if all goes as plans, to be 0mg entirely by summer. Then, I should be able to stop vaping altogether.
For many, vaping is a long-term alternative to smoking. For me, it's a means to an end. I don't really think 2 or 3 years of vaping will lead to as much damage as my 30 years of smoking may have. I am fortunate, so far, to not be suffering from asthma, COPD, emphysema, chronic bronchitis, or any other serious smoking complication, so for me, vaping could very well be a lifesaver and not just a different kind of poison.
Only time will tell, I suppose.
12-09-2010, 04:49 AM
[QUOTE=StarsAndBars;2278832]Ok, I have to say something. I've been using e cigs exclusively for about 7 months now. The only side affect I've experienced is having dry throat (from using liquids strong in PG, but of course chugging water helps). Then again, I smoked 1/2 pack a day for about 8 years, and never really noticed side affects, just knew they were'a come'n if I didn't quit. This is of course why I started vaping. Everything I read and heard boasted the safety of e cigs, and after reading this thread I'm terrified.
Its a little difficult to draw any real conclusion because most of the people posting problems either already have asthma, COPD, emphysema, chronic bronchitis, or were 2 pack a day for 30 year smokers. I would think a little respiratory issues here and there come with the territory.
The point is this. The reason for vaping is the same for us all...... its suppose to be safe, well safe-ish, but I keep reading a list a varying side affects people seem to be experiencing. Add that to the fact that we are the pioneers of this new product. For all we know we may as well be using lead based paint, or working with asbestos. Not to mention the fact that almost nothing is free of consequence. If its a little phlem or dry throat, it would be so worth it, but there could be neurological, reproductive, (or who knows what) problems that aren't yet uncovered. Its getting to the point now where every time I take a draw from my PV I get the same guilty "you idiot don't you know this could be killing you" thoughts I got when smoking. I'm not sure how safe this is anymore, and I don't want to be one of those people with respiratory illness saying "how could I not have seen this happening."
Would I not be crazy just to stop it all together right this second?[/QUOTE]
Ok, you have just verbalized my worst fears. To address your first quote; I am a lot older than you (44 yrs old) but have had no upper respiratory chronic problems in my life until starting vaping; only had 2 sinus infections and one case of strep throat in 24 years of smoking.
I went from feeling great when I first started vaping in Sept to feeling like crap. At least you feel ok based on your post, but it is totally sane to question this stuff. I don't want to see all of us meeting up one day on a Dateline special they may be doing 10 years from now for a condition called "Vaper's Lung". Who knows? People who want to laugh at such a suggestion are living in a fool's paradise. I have come to the conclusion that I don't really know what I am doing and am very PO'd at myself about it.
Last edited by kpax; 12-09-2010 at 05:48 AM.
12-09-2010, 05:04 AM
I feel pretty much the same as you, Kpax, especially after I started finding out what some of the stuff was in the juices. We all come on this forum and curse the tobacco industry because they poisoned us with their 4,000 chemicals, but then turn around and act like we don't have a right to be concerned about making the same mistake again. You've seen what happens if you mention safety concerns such as happened with diacetyl. Ecigs have only been around here for three years and the flavorings didn't really start exploding until a year or so ago. It took that longer than that for the popcorn workers to show the effects and that was at large quantities, so your ten year Dateline episode is not inconceivable- and I also doubt that the ecig industry has the pockets to start paying out claims, although I suspect that many of them don't really have long-term plans despite the big game they may talk.
They like to say that ecig doesn't have the carcinogens that cigarettes do. Chemotherapy, as unpleasant as it may be, and surgery can treat cancer- you get BOOP or some of the other lung diseases, there is no treatment, unless you consider living on a respirator for the rest of your life treatment. And since the only thing we know about some of the flavoring agents is that they are suspected of causing some pretty bad stuff, it's not too much of a leap to suspect the others may be equally as bad.
12-09-2010, 11:18 AM
Guys, if you're so concerned about all the things you seem concerned with, just stop. You're going to drive yourselves crazy. I'll continue to vape and, if something develops later, it was my choice to do what I did. I certainly took that attitude with my 43 years of smoking. After trying to quit dozens of times with one method or other, I just decided to forget about it. Then I stumbled on PVs and now I no longer smoke.
I also no longer use my PV very much. When I reduced my consumption from about 50 smokes a day to 6 with my PV and still couldn't quit, I found Swedish snus, tried it and found it gave me what I needed not to want a smoke. I only wish I had known about it a quarter century ago. People vaping lots of liquid should be concerned since there is no track record, but the amount I'm vaping now doesn't bother my in the least. Besides, something eventually is going to kill me and in most likelihood, like almost everyone else, something in our environment helped that along. It's life.
12-09-2010, 02:04 PM
I do agree with you that we each have to make the choice, much like we did with smoking. However, we smoked in spite of knowing the risks. So this should be the place where we can discuss the possible risks of an ecig and unless that knowledge is out there, using an ecig is essentially the same game of Russian roulette just with a different caliber bullet.
Originally Posted by rothenbj
The stand that "something is eventually going to kill me" is not really a valid justification for ignoring it. We used it for umpteen years as our rationale for continuing to smoke. We could take the same attitude toward vaping, but at that point it seems to invalidate the "safer" title, and as an alternative to cigarettes becomes more like cigar rather than snus.
12-09-2010, 03:40 PM
You seem to think I was referring to the choices between smoking/vaping/other tobacco products. That wasn't the message I was trying to convey. We all know seat belts are safer than not using them yet some chose not to and some die because they did. Eating junk food causes health issues, but junk food gets eaten. Motorcycles are more dangerous than riding a car with a seat belt on, but still people ride cycles. The list is endless- coffee, alcohol, fireplace smoke, diesel fumes, etc.
Originally Posted by SimpleSins
It's good that potential risk is identified and changes are made to improve safety, however my point is that there is risk in almost everything we do day to day. I find it interesting that the government is so concerned with the health risks of vaping while at the same time adding fire suppressants to cigarette paper to reduce what is a relatively low fire risk. 46 million people smoke and no testing was done to determine long term health aspects of this requirement.
One of the reasons I even considered vaping was the coughing and wheezing that started when FSC cigs were required in PA. I feel the paper was causing it since I started buying cigs in VA (second home) and the symptoms went away until they also required the new paper.
12-09-2010, 05:37 PM
What is snuss? I keep hearing about it. Isn't it just dip? chew? tobacco? Is it in some way safer? does it still cause oral cancer? I'm interested.
12-09-2010, 06:06 PM
Swedish snus is a finally ground tobacco sold in Sweden for some 200 years. They've constantly worked on reducing tsns over the years and had many studies done on it. Most of the experts quote 98-99% safer than cigs. The only disease that doubled in never smokers was Pancreatic cancer from something like 4 in 100k to 8 in 100k while smoking caused 12 in 100k. The one caveat on that study was that many of the snus users were at one time cigarette smokers, I understand.
Originally Posted by StarsAndBars
There's a sub forum on ECF, Smokeless tobacco known affectionately as the other side of the tracks or, the dark side.
Camel and Marlboro have products out there known as SNUS, but they are sweet and untested where Ss has a salty taste and are proven winners. It's a spitless smokeless product that comes in portions (teabag like packs) or los where you need to pack it and either build your own pouch or lip it raw. I never tried los but love portions. Solved my need for smokes totally.
The only drag is the tobacco nazis have made it more difficult to get with the PACT act. Cost of shipping makes it important to order big supplies to keep the cost down and it cut back on the number of products available. You may be able to get General brands at local tobacco shops if you check.
12-09-2010, 06:10 PM
Supplier Services Provider
i love me some snus, camel will do in a pinch but the swedish stuff (ordered from northerner.com) is gooooood. skoal also makes a snus called skoal pouches i hear they sell them at walmart, have yet to check though.
snus is generally cheap, even the swedish stuff is no more then $4 a tin, just the shipping that gets you. even usa made snus from northerner is like $10 at least for shipping, sucks cause i live fairly close to their PA warehouse.
12-09-2010, 06:49 PM
Caddyman, the secret is quantity and sales. Once you know what you like, and I've found I like most, you just put in a big order. My last order was something like thirty cans with free shipping and some buy five get one free. Anyway, with no smokeless tax in PA I came in right around $3 a can and I use 4-5 portion a day so a can lasts about five days. That sure beats the $15 a day I was spending on smokes.
Another site to check, Snus Bargain - Cheap Snus Deals Through Collective Buyer Power They have deals there which seem to make sense though I'm so stocked right now I haven't tried them yet. I keep my supply in my freezer, some say refrig. and others just keep it in a cool place. I have cans that are 10 months old and they stay pretty consistent.
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