A Tale of Two Futures of the Electronic Cigarette

[LaceyUnderall]

A Tale of Two Futures of The E-Cigarette offers a look at what could happen if the FDA is given the right to determine intended use and regulate our beloved electronic cigarettes as an NRT.

[Moonflame]

Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber has been inhaling PG at any showing of his "Phantom of the Opera" that he attends. If you've ever seen it, in person or on video, you know it has huge amounts of fog machine fog. So much that the musicians in the orchestra have to wipe the condensed liquid off of their instruments during the show and complain of sometimes not being able to see their score (sheet music). He and all of the others involved with the show have never complained though of any physical problems from inhaling huge amounts of the stuff. 20 years of inhaling PG and no problems that we know about from him...leads me to believe it's ok over the long term.

[LaceyUnderall]

Moonflame -

Wow! That is a wonderful insight. I remember sitting at a parade at Disney one night. As they rolled through the streets, we were all sitting on the curb having fog machine fog pumped into our faces. The people watching ranged in age from young infants to the elderly.

Sitting there, I could also assume that they were probably not using food grade pg in their fog machines.

There are examples of pg use in mass quantities and in examples as you have noted. Next study that should be done once we get through this whole hoo-laa-laa fight and over the first hurdle of keeping out of the FDA's NRT control, would be to focus on long term use of PG.

Personally, I am quite surprised that the National Cancer Institute is funding a study to determine the levels of nicotine that an ecig user intakes instead of if long term use of inhaling propylene glycol were to cause cancer (new or existing form). We KNOW that nicotine does not cause cancer. If it did, then why would they be using nicotine in a current study to see if nicotine can help in treating Nicotine in Treating "Hunger Pain" in Patients With Malignant Bowel Obstruction Caused By Cancer - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov

So fascinating.

[yvilla]

Originally Posted by LaceyUnderall

Personally, I am quite surprised that the National Cancer Institute is funding a study to determine the levels of nicotine that an ecig user intakes instead of if long term use of inhaling propylene glycol were to cause cancer (new or existing form).

Lacey, I am not surprised at all - studies on the inhalation of PG are not needed because we also KNOW that it does not cause cancer. Remember this quote I posted a good while ago from the 2006 EPA reregistration document on the use of PG (and dipropylene glycol) as an air sanitizer (metered amounts aerosoled into the air every 15 minutes) and surface disinfectant in places such as hospitals and eating establishments, as well as for use in air conditioning filters? It's been used as such since the 1950's all across the US, and was reapproved in 2006. Here is the paragraph about carcinogenicity concerns:

"A review of the available data has shown propylene glycol and dipropylene glycol to be negative for carcinogenicity in studies conducted up to the testing limit doses established by the Agency; therefore, no further carcinogenic analysis is required."

And just for good measure, here is the paragraph about toxicity in general:

"Upon reviewing the available toxicity information, the Agency has concluded that there are no endpoints of concern for oral, dermal, or inhalation exposure to propylene glycol and dipropylene glycol. This conclusion is based on the results of toxicity testing of propylene glycol and dipropylene glycol in which dose levels near or above testing limits (as established in the OPPTS 870 series harmonized test guidelines) were employed in experimental animal studies and no significant toxicity observed."

http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/reregist...glycol_red.pdf

[LaceyUnderall]

yvilla -

Thank you for that quote and link. I did in fact miss it the first time around

[Moonflame]

This is why I'm so confused about the FDA's stance on PVs. They know that PG is safe to inhale, otherwise why would they allow it in asthma meds. They know that Nicotine is not the problem in cigarettes, it's all the other things in them that cause cancer. And the liquid has less than or an equal amount of nitrosamines as their approved NRTs. The only thing in the juice that hasn't been studied for inhalation (at least I don't know of any studies) is the flavoring. Why are they fighting them so hard? It's not logical.

[tiffytiff]

follow the money and i think you will find your answer. think of the us tax dollars lost for every "smoker" converted to "vaper". they are scared out of their minds IMHO

[LaceyUnderall]

It isn't necessarily tax dollars they would lose, but tiffy, you are right.

Right now, the FDA is NOT solely funded by tax dollars. In 1992, Congress passed a law that said the FDA would also need to be funded by the ones seeking approval to help foot the ever expanding needs of this insanely large agency.

So, as it is right now the FDA is funded by Tax dollars and companies seeking approval for their products. Now, with the tobacco bill this all changes. Now the FDA will be funded by tax dollars, pharm AND big tobacco.

There certainly is a problem, IMHO, when Americans are led to believe that this is an organization to protect the consumer when in fact, it is the ones who they should be protecting us against that are footing the bill.

This is one of my most favorite articles regarding this: frontline: dangerous prescription: the fda: how independent is the fda? | PBS

Very interesting.

[Harry Crazington]

Originally Posted by tiffytiff

follow the money and i think you will find your answer. think of the us tax dollars lost for every "smoker" converted to "vaper". they are scared out of their minds IMHO

Yes but all of the ingredients in the eJuice have already been taxed, including the nicotine. Whoever originally made the juice had to get the nicotine by extracting it from tobacco leaf which was taxed when they bought the leaf in the first place.
The only ones losing money would be cigarette manufacturers because we're buying eJuice instead of their poison sticks.

[SnuggleBunny]

Originally Posted by Moonflame

Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber has been inhaling PG at any showing of his "Phantom of the Opera" that he attends. If you've ever seen it, in person or on video, you know it has huge amounts of fog machine fog...

I can attest to the safety as well... after being the front man for a goth band since the 80's, and being the proud owner of 2 fog machines over the years, I've literally breathed in metric tons of the stuff over the years with no ill effects. my only advice is NOT to use the "Piña colada" scented stuff... it's just nasty!

snuggs