St. Paul MN: ECigs Excluded from Latest Ban

[Savantster]

These are not Big Tobacco products being banned. These are the "pretend" products most of us probably played with once upon a time. Jimmy Cagney as the mob boss with a bubble gum cigar, etc. You are wanting to demonize the tobacco industry through these products.

Great, I'll blow Smarties through a straw. Ban the straw, why don't you.

This is unneeded micro-meddling of the first rank. Hard to believe taxpayer dollars paid lawyers to study this dire social need, then draft an ordinance and use more money in a meeting to consider it. I guess all the problems with victims have been resolved.

Save The Children! Gimme a break.

The problem is failing to understand what acclimation, desensitization, imprinting, cognitive dissonance, et. al. mean in a growing mind. Branding (and associative marketing) has been shown to reduce the potential negative effects taught later in life to "average people". That is, children are _very_ susceptible to these things, and it makes no sense to minimize what is already a difficult process in raising kids. Once they "learn" that "chewing from a foil pouch" is "fun", that seed is planted for their entire life. Might the "real thing" disgust them? sure.. but they are much more open to the _idea_ if it's something they "feel good about" from their childhood.

it's akin to the same reason they can't flash images and words in 1 out of 10 frames on TV during commercials, we learned that "subliminal programming" actually works, and is dangerous and subverts someone's ability to make conscience desicions about things. It isn't all that far from brainwashing.

Kids can still chew gum, kids can and will still pick up a stick to "mimick" smoking of cigars and pipes, but it will _not_ be reinforced in chemistry by sugar and eating and other "natural" biological processes.

Seriously, we have important things to worry about, picking fights because people who study these things understand better the games being played against our children, the unwitting part we're playing in the profit taking by corporations. Life is too short and too precious to have it abused so some faceless prick can buy a bigger yacht.

[Steampunk]

Save The Children! Gimme a break.

Here in Ohio, Tobacco Free Kids has an annoying radio add playing recently...have a listen to this crap.
It's more about the money than it is about the kids.

http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/campaign/ohio/otp.mp3

[OutWest]

While it's nice to see e-cigs mentioned and excluded, the whole ordinance seems kinda silly to me. Now kids will be able to buy weed outside of the convenience store but not buy candy cigs inside the store. And, apparently the city of St. Paul hasnt heard of "smoking smarties". (if you havent heard of it, search youtube for it). I'd rather see a kid eating candy cigarettes or chewing Big League gum than smoking smarties.

[bishop]

The problem is failing to understand what acclimation, desensitization, imprinting, cognitive dissonance, et. al. mean in a growing mind. Branding (and associative marketing) has been shown to reduce the potential negative effects taught later in life to "average people". That is, children are _very_ susceptible to these things, and it makes no sense to minimize what is already a difficult process in raising kids. Once they "learn" that "chewing from a foil pouch" is "fun", that seed is planted for their entire life. Might the "real thing" disgust them? sure.. but they are much more open to the _idea_ if it's something they "feel good about" from their childhood.

it's akin to the same reason they can't flash images and words in 1 out of 10 frames on TV during commercials, we learned that "subliminal programming" actually works, and is dangerous and subverts someone's ability to make conscience desicions about things. It isn't all that far from brainwashing.

Kids can still chew gum, kids can and will still pick up a stick to "mimick" smoking of cigars and pipes, but it will _not_ be reinforced in chemistry by sugar and eating and other "natural" biological processes.

Seriously, we have important things to worry about, picking fights because people who study these things understand better the games being played against our children, the unwitting part we're playing in the profit taking by corporations. Life is too short and too precious to have it abused so some faceless prick can buy a bigger yacht.

This entire post just screams " Pleas big old government ! please raise my children because Im too stupid or lazy to do it myself"


Its getting really old that people don't take responsibility for their children and take a part in their lives, there are way too many lazy people that think they just need to drop their kids off at school everyday and the government will take care of everything.

By letting BS like this come into play you are only getting one step closer to the government knocking on your door and telling you you need to get fixed to control a population problem......

but hey that wont matter, they're only doing it with your best interests in mind and watching out for your safety.


Grow a spine and learn to make your own decisions again.

[jamie]

since e-cigs are not "marketed towards children in an attempt to desensitize them to tobacco products in their later years", it makes sense to _not_ include them.

If you read other news reports you'll see the same & partnered anti groups making exactly that argument as part of their opposition to ecigs. If it's white it's designed to "re-normalize" smoking tobacco cigarettes in the minds of children. If it's not white it's "colored to appeal to children," as are the LEDs. The non-tobacco flavors are to "make children think it's candy".

Again, I suspect there was a Ruyan intervention for the moment, likely accepted so the recruited kids would have an easy time of it, i.e. no opposition at hearings and a unanimous vote. It ensured their special OMG KIDS! PHOTO OP meetings with the Mayor and all the other yay-rah-rah civics lesson celebration was free of glitches.

Also at present - these same groups are also pushing/packing hearings for a smoking-in-cars-with-under18s ban. And are actively on the prowl for a full smokeless ban asserting the same - protecting the children.

And finally - as history and several articles have noted, the driver behind this easy-to-win local ban is so they can go to the state and complain that kids can still go RIGHT ACROSS CITY LINES and see these horrific products, so THEREFORE the only right thing to do is have a statewide ban. The same people have used this same city council in this same way on prior anti laws. It's how they pull in businesses to then complain about unfair competition down the street across the border. Smokeless will be next.

[VaporDave]

I want to see them ban the sale of chewing tobacco, because it too much resembles that nasty bubble gum that ruins your teeth.

[VapnPuff]

well, on last night's world news they said that the US government is now seriously considering a tax per ounce on all soda drinks. They stated it would amount to 10 cents per ounce, which makes one's Biggie 32 oz drink rather expensive. But, they're now preparing to target the obesity problem and that seems to be their first step.

I was rather glad to hear it, because if the soda companies can get out of this particular situation, then can't the tobacco companies claim they've been wrongfully discriminated against? Listening to the news story, it seemed to me like the government may have just stuck both feet in its mouth.

Also, having read here someone stated that they'd heard Epuffer was closing it's offices, I emailed Epuffer and was told not only do they have no intentions of closing the Canadian offices, but have plans in the work to open a second warehouse as well as plans for direct retail sales in the US and Canada by the end of this year.

Johnson Creek told me they don't anticipate any issues with the FDA with their products.

So, perhaps, this is all more of an effort on the FDA's part, or Big Brother itself, to control or even eliminate, the smaller businesses so that the larger companies can control the entire pie.

[incineradma]

I agree with Lacey, for sure. I am not a child and I would love bubble gum that imitates chewing tobacco. And I loved the beef jerkey. The problem isn't that OTHER people or OTHER companies are giving children these crazy ideas, it's that the parents have not prepared their children to handle encounters of VERY COMMON products and situations. There's nothing wrong with a child chewing on a candy cigarette because the child should be able to understand that it is a CANDY cigarette, and that's why it's okay -- they are not smoking, which is the harmful action.

Laws like this are enabling lazy or uncaring parents.

[Savantster]

This entire post just screams " Pleas big old government ! please raise my children because Im too stupid or lazy to do it myself"


Its getting really old that people don't take responsibility for their children and take a part in their lives, there are way too many lazy people that think they just need to drop their kids off at school everyday and the government will take care of everything.

By letting BS like this come into play you are only getting one step closer to the government knocking on your door and telling you you need to get fixed to control a population problem......

but hey that wont matter, they're only doing it with your best interests in mind and watching out for your safety.


Grow a spine and learn to make your own decisions again.

You're clearly missing the point, and you clearly have no understanding of human nature or the influences on children in modern society. Even the best of parents has to send their kids to school in many situations. Do you realize that some school districts are raising money by having corporations run commercials to kids while they are a captive audience on busses going to school?

You're argument doesn't take into account reality, or the _fact_ that WE are the Government. You want to make it simply "parents just suck", and ignore the mountain of pressures parents have to fight against to raise their kids in the first place.

But that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. I just hope that chaos doesn't become the rule of the day because most people living in a civilized country simply don't understand what living in a State of Nature is like (even though they keep being proponents of it).

[Savantster]

Laws like this are enabling lazy or uncaring parents.

Like I said, parents have a mountain of influences to fight against on a regular basis, why are we allowing for profit people to increase the burden?

Why the hell are so many people content to believe that "living" means being relegated to life long struggle to "raise kids" and "always be on the watch for those trying to screw you over"? The alternatives are that people live calm, happy, relatively stress free lives.. but that requires that we, as a society, demand that humans, not profits, drive policies.

Marketing to kids is WRONG, on many many many MANY levels. But so many of you are so acclimated to being bombarded with advertisements all day long that you don't see how they are a huge blemish on civilization, and influencing you and your children in very negative ways.

That I find sad.