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Fda approval! in Campaigning; Originally Posted by Myk As far as I can tell the nicotine in e-liquid is taken from plants, there are ...
  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myk View Post
    As far as I can tell the nicotine in e-liquid is taken from plants, there are other "essences" from tobacco.
    That is not drug form nicotine, it is a form of tobacco. The FDA cannot regulate tobacco without getting the law changed.
    Tobacco Law & Legal Definition

    I don't see any mention of e-liquid there. Maybe someone should dish out $15 and 'ask a lawyer'.

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    ...Prohibit health claims about so-called “reduced risk” products that are not scientifically proven or that would discourage current tobacco users from quitting or encourage new users to start...
    oops here they come...

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    Quote Originally Posted by cucurucho View Post
    Tobacco Law & Legal Definition

    I don't see any mention of e-liquid there. Maybe someone should dish out $15 and 'ask a lawyer'.
    Here you go,
    http://www.farseegroup.com/UploadFil...r%20flavor.pdf

    Tobacco essencial oil, natural from tobacco
    Tobacco absolute, natural from tobacco
    Nicotine (from tobacco leaf), natural from tobacco

    That makes this a tobacco product. The form of nicotine is why it is not NRT which has to use an approved drug for or apply for new drug approval.

    This is the exact thing Nicotine Water when through in reverse.
    I don't see any mention of Nicotine water there either and that's marketed as a tobacco product now that they've changed their nicotine away from a drug form.

    LOL, $15 to talk to a lawyer, that's funny.
    My lawyer nephew would probably send me a bill higher than that if I asked him legal advice
    He's tobacco friendly so I'll ask him if I see him before the FDA or Congress makes a move.

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    Angry FDA IS MAKING WAVES! Read my e-mail from one agent.

    I am not an attorney, but from what I gather in this message is that he is stating that a new drug application must be submitted and approved prior to selling this product. Then towards the end, he states that "None of these so-called "electronic cigarettes" is covered by an approved NDA."

    So I interpret this as basically no one can legally sell these items. I even mentioned to him that mine did not contain any nicotine and only contained PG. Of coarse I never claimed this as being any type of smoking cessation device either. So basically he is saying that all the big companies selling these products in the US are breaking the law.

    Any attorneys out there who can shed some light on this outrageous response received by the FDA??

    Please note that url's were submitted to me, however I can not post them here until I have posted 15 messages. I can forward the complete e-mail to anyone who wishes. So I just wrote "?" in those spaces for now. I would also be glad to forward the FDA agents direct e-mail to anyone who wants it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Budich from the FDA
    Your recent inquiry directed to the Division of Drug Information in FDA's Center for Drug Evaluation and Research, regarding the regulatory status of so-called "electronic cigarettes," was forwarded to me for reply. Please note that in order to make a definitive determination of the regulatory status of any product it is necessary that we review a complete description of the product's design, function, its formulation, labeling and promotion (including statements and representations on the Internet), and any other information (e.g., patents) that describe the product's intended uses. In addition, as a matter of policy, we limit communications about the regulatory status of specific marketed products to those responsible for them, and we do not discuss our enforcement actions except with the targets of those actions. Nonetheless, we can make the following general comments:

    The "electronic cigarettes" that we have reviewed are drug-device combinations under section 503(g)(1) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (the Act) (21 U.S.C. 353(g)(1)) with their "drug" uses, as defined by section 201(g) of the Act (21 U.S.C. § 321(g)), as the primary mode of action. In this regard, these products contain no tobacco leaf or stem material, but are designed to look like conventional cigarettes. They are intended to be manipulated and used (inhaled) in ways similar to how a smoker manipulates and uses conventional cigarettes. And, like conventional cigarettes, they are intended primarily for the delivery of volatilized chemical substances to affect the body's structures and functions and/or to mitigate or treat the symptoms of nicotine addiction through a chemical or metabolic action on the body. The "electronic cigarettes" that we have reviewed are designed with a re-chargeable battery-operated heating element that volatilizes the chemical constituents contained within replaceable cartridges. These cartridges may or may not include nicotine. Since we are not aware of any data establishing that such products are generally recognized among scientific experts as safe and effective for these "drug" uses, they are "new drugs," as defined by section 201(p) of the Act (21 U.S.C. § 321(p)) requiring approval of an application filed in accordance with section 505 of the Act (21 U.S.C. § 355) to be legally marketed in the United States. None of these so-called "electronic cigarettes" is covered by an approved NDA.

    Furthermore, the "electronic cigarettes" that we have reviewed are not subject to the Federal Cigarette Labeling and Advertising Act (FCLAA), Pub. L. No. 89-92, (15 U.S.C. §§ 1331 et seq), nor are they subject to the Comprehensive Smokeless Tobacco Health Education Act (CSTHEA), Pub. L. No. 98-474 (1986), (15 U.S.C. §§ 4401 et seq). Thus, they do not fit within the regulatory scheme that Congress has established for tobacco products.


    A detailed discussion of the new drug application (NDA) process is available on FDA’s Internet Web site at: http://www.fda.gov/cder/regulatory/a...ns/default.htm. The sections of the Act referenced above are also available on FDA's Internet web site at www.fda.gov.


    I hope this is helpful.



    Kevin M. Budich
    Compliance Officer
    Food and Drug Administration
    CDER/Office of Compliance
    Division of New Drugs & Labeling Compliance
    OTC Drugs Team
    10903 New Hampshire Ave.
    WO51-5174
    Silver Spring, MD 20993

    301-796-3304
    kevin.budich@fda.hhs.gov
    Last edited by CaSHMeRe; 01-08-2009 at 04:03 AM. Reason: Edited Per Palermo45 request ...

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    forward the links to me ... i will edit your post to include them.

    steve@puresmoker.com

    P.S. = My PM Mailbox gets really full, really fast, so bear with me if it takes me a few days to get to your PM :) Don't forget, you can always contact us at info@puresmoker.com :)

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    break it up a little into paragraphs too, can you cash for legibility?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dc2k08 View Post
    break it up a little into paragraphs too, can you cash for legibility?
    That's how the email came bud. Wasn't broken up

    P.S. = My PM Mailbox gets really full, really fast, so bear with me if it takes me a few days to get to your PM :) Don't forget, you can always contact us at info@puresmoker.com :)

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    Furthermore, the "electronic cigarettes" that we have reviewed are not subject to the Federal Cigarette Labeling and Advertising Act (FCLAA), Pub. L. No. 89-92, (15 U.S.C. §§ 1331 et seq), nor are they subject to the Comprehensive Smokeless Tobacco Health Education Act (CSTHEA), Pub. L. No. 98-474 (1986), (15 U.S.C. §§ 4401 et seq). Thus, they do not fit within the regulatory scheme that Congress has established for tobacco products.
    Pipe tobacco has neither of those.
    I have some with a California warning but none with a federal warning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by palermo45 View Post
    I am not an attorney, but from what I gather in this message is that he is stating that a new drug application must be submitted and approved prior to selling this product. Then towards the end, he states that "None of these so-called "electronic cigarettes" is covered by an approved NDA."
    .
    Are you your agent is not talking about all of this in the NRT context? It doesn't matter if these "new drugs" don't "qualify" if people let go of the idea that they will somehow be accepted as medicine...

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    Default FDA's response

    The main problem I have with this entire scenario is the FDA picks and chooses who they allow to sell. I have some close friends who are physicians and who love the device and say it would help dramatically but are also aware that the FDA simply will never approve any device that simulates smoking. They told me that even if there is only PG in the cartridges it falls under the new drug category. What is up with that??

    I never mentioned anything even remote to smoking cessation. I simply read up and saw how many unanswered questions there were especially hearing about some people getting their products detained and destroyed while others bring in product by container loads.

    If the FDA is going to regulate this product, so be it, however they have no right to allow some people to sell while prohibiting others, especially if the product is identical in nature and there are no false claims.

    Basically if I wanted to brand my own, and bring in cartridges only with PG, I can't? Sorry, but the law is intended to have the same guidelines for all parties. If a big company and say myself have identical product and neither of us have submitted any paperwork, is it fair that I am not allowed to brand my own product? Even if it is thoroughly responsible in every aspect? In my eyes, that is discrimination but good luck in sueing the FDA.

    That is my view on this isssue!!

    Furthermore, like so many other Government agencies, the FDA is an outdated worthless system!! All they do is pick and choose who they like and what they like and they all have God complexes. Even more of a joke is the bureau of the (I believe it is CPSC or something like that) they oversee new products and there are only like 3 employees for the entire Country. LOL,,,

    I've lived in the US my entire life but after I make enough, I am out of here!! This Country is totally corrupt and does not give a rats ass about it's citizens. It is only about the dollars and finding new way of fining people. Sure, let's give 840 Billion to the poor banks that intentionally screw people over but what about the people being screwed over? Sorry!! Maybe next time?? It really churns my stomach!! Let's see if Obama can do anything to make this a better place and get it back on track. I rooted for him and hope he can actually do some good.

    Sorry about the venting!! I'll keep to topic from now on!

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