Nicotine regulation: UK future

[brendajorsler]

As there are 'no-nicotine' cartridges that people are using in their e-cig how can an e-cig be banned ? Even if nicotine becomes a 'controlled substance' how will the smoking 'police' be able to stop and check every vapourising device to see if the user has any nicotine in the cartridge.
Every cartridge 'seized' would have to be taken off for analysis !!
This is becoming stupid. I would think that the general public (including non-smokers) would be very irate if our police were wasting time checking for traces of nicotine in e-cig cartridges instead of actually catching criminals !!
Even if the police did not actually do the arresting and testing, the money spent on other 'smoke police' would be a huge burden on the tax payer.
The WHO and Government are on a very 'sticky wicket' and quite frankly do not know which way to box !!
In one breath they want us all to quit smoking, but they do not actually want us to enjoy the quitting process. They are happy for us to stick a stupid expensive plaster on our body's as they know this is not fun. So the very idea of us enjoying an e-cig is against the grain of the killjoys.
Power to the people who defy these fat cats and brain dead politicians and all the 'do gooders'
Brenda

[Stan Ferou]

Well said Brenda. As far as I'm concerned, the very idea of banning e-cigs/liquid is taking government intervention into the freedom of the individual to a new, frankly ludicrous extreme.

[MagusSteele]

I do agree with you Brenda.
The "Fat Cats" do not care about cost, or how it effects others like us, "the addicts".
I think it happened the same over there, but, we had smoking banned in any and all public establishments, bars, and restaurants.
The state had to Create a whole new division of public health, and a whole hearing proccess for offenders, then boards to over see the implimentation and regulations, not to mention all the new court cases trying ti fight the ban.
Then the local police have to take the time to inspect the clubs for offenders, and HAVE arrested people for smoking.
Then there are the new inspectors to go around and enforce/check any and all complaints by the public which has a snitch/rat hotline to call if they even smell a cigarette. They had 200k calls the first month from morons, at a cost of 25cents each call, THEN the cost to followup on each one, with a warning letter, and a visit, I have no idea what that all cost, Millions maybe?

The people ONLY care about control, and money, not anything even remotely logical, or rational. Follow the money, always, for the answers

[brendajorsler]

Having just read your report for ending tobacco smoking in this country I am writing on behalf of the 10 million people in this country who actually ENJOY smoking.
We do not want that extra 10 years calculated by you that we will live if we stop smoking. We would rather die at 70 coughing than at 80 in a filthy bed not knowing the time of day. Our coughing will cost the NHS a lot less than if we all lived longer and spent an extra 10 years on planet Dippy.
Why can't your organisation leave us alone.
We do not want sticky nicotine plasters stuck on our skin (they ITCH)
You state that preventing our premature deaths will be a major benefit to the nation's health ... HOW ?? If we are dead then how will the nation benefit ? The only benefit will be that we will be old and probably senile !! Then again the Pharmaceutical company's will again grease your palms and sell their drugs to prolong the suffering of Alzheimer's patients. What a great benefit to the nation that will be.
If your organisation spent less time in bed with the pharmaceutical companies taking bribes for the millions spent on NRT then the NHS could spend that money on treating our coughs for the last few months of our miserable lives.
LEAVE US ALONE
Brenda

[TropicalBob]

Don't try to make it difficult with policing issues: The health types want to eliminate nicotine use. A simple premise that will be the basis for new laws.

The first law aimed at e-smokers will ban the sale or import of any nicotine product containing more than 4mg per 1ml. A few companies will test it. They will lose and pay fines. Foreign companies selling e-liquid will put "UK Out" for buying larger amounts of nicotine in cartridges or e-liquid. Sweden has "US Out" for any snus containing Cuban tobacco (it's embargoed). Enforcing this won't be hard. Shut down sale and supply. Shut off Web ordering. Shut down local shop sales.

Once the initial outcry from a few indignant e-smokers calms, it will be accepted as just the way things are.

[brendajorsler]

Hi Bob,
Do you really think that the Government are as powerful as to be able to shut down any web ordering ?
I think that the general public are a bit more wise to the banning of these so called illegal substances.
There are a great many illegal things that are banned here and yet are still easily available through the web or anywhere else.
The whole country is awash with 'smuggled' cigs and tobacco and booze from the rest of Europe that is cheaper than here in the U.K.
Everywhere there are 'counterfeit' designer label clothes/jewellery/perfumes etc. that are 'banned' from sale.
The street are full of illegal drugs. Many people grow/make illegal substances Young kids can buy alcohol anywhere. Guns and knives are readily available.
These are just a few examples of the market availability of 'banned' or illegal things.
If there does ever become a 'ban' on nicotine that can be used in an electronic cigarette then there will be no problem in acquiring it whatsoever. Prohibition was an example.
Brenda

[leaford]

Are we reading the same document?

The doc I read advocates making NRT, smokeless tobacco, and non medical nicotine products MORE available, not banning them, based on a harm reduction approach.

This sounds like the best thing we can hope for. We will never get them to back off on smoking. But they are acknowledging that the harm from tobacco is not in nicotine, but in smoking, and that some people cannot quit so need other forms of nicotine delivery, which should be available to them CHEAPER than smoking.

[Kate]

That's my understanding of what they were saying in that document Leaford although I didn't read it all.

In response to Brenda, they might ban nicotine from eliquid in the UK and we could probably get it on the black market but most of us do not operate outside the law lightly. We expect the law to protect us, regulation and maybe even licenses for suppliers could work in our favour, it would give us peace of mind about what we are actually inhaling. I don't want to use black market products that have no quality control or regulation, I think it's dangerous.

If the law forces a large proportion of people to act illegally then it will undermine what faith we have in the rule of law. When there are so many criminals it makes the saying that the law is an ass true. Our society relies on co-operation and compliance with the law to survive. We cannot condone illegal activity in regards to nicotine any more than we can condone the supply and procurement of cannabis. It is illegal, although many people use it. Many people believe it should not be illegal and ignore the law. For individual needs and beliefs I can see how this can be justified but as a member of a society I don't think it promotes good citizenship values to belittle the importance of being on the correct side of the law.

I'm not really a goody two shoes, this is more a moral argument than a practical one as far as I'm concerned. Just like everybody else, I'll be wanting my nicotine fix in some form or other even if it's illegal.

[Ruby]

I can see both your points.

What makes me glum though is the idea that I could lose my frail newfound freedom to e-smoke my way through life - (mostly) wherever I please!
I'm well conditioned as a smoker, also a scaredy cat & I ask permission to vape wherever I can. The response is heartening. Less than a week since I started e-smoking & so far 3 out of the 4 places I asked to do it made me feel more than welcome...admittedly today i was dubious so I borrowed another users line of saying I was using it for my ADD, well - it's nearrrly true! Spent happy hours vaping away indoors while my fellow smokers stood outside like naughty children having time out. I felt FREE and after years of submission - it felt great.
I don't want that taken away. We may be able to get it illegally and I certainly will!...but if I am again confined to my own house and 'outside' that sense of freedom will go... and if it is so nice already how much more will I miss it when I am a seasoned e-cig user...

[brendajorsler]

Yes,
We probably are reading the same document.
However whenever I read any document that our Government commissions I tend to read 'between the lines' as our Government does have a tendency to LIE !!
When I read that or leaders are being asked to consider making a particular substance (nicotine) subject to a 'central agency' then I start to twitch.
A 'central agency' tends to mean a taxable commodity that is under the total control of the Government. Or that is issued by another 'central agency' that will have the power to dispense the commodity as it sees fit i.e. the NHS. In this way they will have total control over the usage.
This is a political issue.
Even the NRT treatments here are mostly subject to clauses. For example many doctors will not issue NRT to anyone who does not agree to 'councelling' by a smoking cessation 'expert'
The more of these experts there are employed the more staff are on the NHS payroll and therefore the more votes gained by the way of the public sector unions.
It is almost a police state here now and any attempt to regulate one more 'substance' will have us all begging the state for our 'fix' which we will only get if certain 'conditions' are met.
Big Brother is out to get us all.....Even us poor E-smokers..
Brenda