Nicotine regulation: UK future

[TropicalBob]

Here's the report on where the Royal College of Physicians wants nicotine to go in the future. Near the end of the report, we see that e-smoking will be controlled by a Nicotine Regulatory Agency. This report is a real gloom and doom document for tobacco and nicotine use. There is no future for it.

http://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/pubs/cont...bf06597623.pdf

[KatyS]

That is one scary document. don't think US would put up with that, especially the big tobacco companies. Not to mention all the money the US would loose on taxes they collect on analog cigs.

[Mr.Darcy]

grim reading...big brother for nic addicts.

the age for legal purchase of cigarettes went up from 16 to 18 two days ago in the UK,so its already in motion...and its going to get much worse-perhaps insidious at first,but with gathering momentum...with,of course,the inevitable swell of support from the antis,and the indifference of the majority.

anyway,the UK government do whatever they like,and nothing and nobody gets in their way...

[MagusSteele]

These types of people are really starting to Piss me off.
They wanted smoking sections, fine
they wanted airplanes, fine
They wanted it outdoors, fine (but not happy)
They raise the taxes for everything and their grandmother, fine
Now they want to punish us for it?

AND, you know, they will NOT stop there. There is Way to much money in this kind of crusade for them to stop. Its how they keep thier jets and big cars, through "donations" from morons who "DO IT FOR THE CHILDREN".
here in the US the tobacco companies paid out BILLIONS of dollars for "Education" and "Prevention" and "Treatment" for smokers, BULL CRAP. these people, threw 4 commercials on TV and Pocketed the rest.
Supression of others is Big Business.
The exact same for the Alcohol Biddys. M.A.D.D. gets MILLIONS every year, what do they do with it? NO, I am asking, what do they do with it, because they dont do a damn thing other then pass out flyers near bars that I have ever seen.
Once they get to a point where they can not SQUEEZE the life out of smokers, it will be FAT people next. Alcohol is a little to big, that will take time, and piece by piece like they did with tobacco.
Fat will be Easy, it KILLS, and hurts our "Children". McDonalds and others are already under attack here.
See, they learned long ago, when you Add "For the Children" you Can Not Argue Back In Any Way. Or else you look the fool for beating on kids 0_o even if your RIGHT.
There is only 2 ways to actually Fight Back, Through the Courts for Civil Rights Violations, and Through the Government useing their Own Laws against them.
You see when it becomes labled a addictive Drug, you are then "Disabled" and get ALL kinds of things free/like welfare. Being disabled, you can not work, therefor, they need to pay for you once 5 million go on disablity, then they MAY wake up. You Have to hit them in the Pocket and Bnk account, for any revolt to succeed against the Controlers.
The Cradle to grave, babysitting of everyone on the planet because they know better then you how to live Your life, HAS to stop, one way or the other.
Here in the states, we seem to be heading tword socialisum, where the government tells you when to Pee. At that time, Watch the HillBillys come out, and the Fur Fly then.

Its All about money, and how much they can Suck out of you, NOT helping anyone, but them selfs.

[leaford]

Actually, I don't see this as all gloom and doom. They recognize that some smokers cannot quit, acknowledge a harm reduction approach, acknowledge the value of less harmful smokeless tobacco products, reccomend greater availability and lower cost for NRT. Really, I think this is a pretty balanced and realistic approach. E-cigs are not directly addressed, but they could easily fit in and even thrive within the document's vision.

[MagusSteele]

Thats how they do it.
"Its Just a little thing, I dont see a problem."
Until next thing you know
Your Peeing in a cup to test your fat intake. Or, getting your health insurance canciled, or, being fired because you smoke, or worse Had Smoked, . Or paying a 75% tax on your E-cig Juice, "for the Children"
I heard something once,
there was a law inacted where a certain race could not swim with another one. They generally thought, no big deal, we didnt want to swim with them anyway. Who (The Germans) and you know where that led.

We have to start reading between the lines.

harm reduction approach

What you didnt see was, HArm reduction of THEM, not us. As a Nicotine "Junkie", You become a second class citizen, at the least, a Lepor, a muderer, an Enemy of the State, or Worse
Sounds Paranoid dont it?
Its time we become paranoid. Becaues they ARE out to get YOU.

Your over 65, your no longer a productive member of "Society", we have to cancel all Your Medical care.

Not connected? Sure it is.
Its all the same, pick, pick, pick, chipping away Your rights, weather it be to smoke after a nice dinner, in a restaurant, or being told we can not hire you because you smoked for more then a day in your life, and we have MRIs and body cellulose tests to prove you did. "Im sorry, Your DNA has a 42% probability you may contract a disease In your Productive years".
Where does it end?
It is not the "Fairness" or Simplicity of their approach, its another chip of freedom, followed by another, wrapped in good intentions that you need to be afraid of.

*Edit, Sorry, I should have put Nazis above, and not Germans

[Kit]

Originally Posted by MagusSteele

These types of people are really starting to Piss me off.
They wanted smoking sections, fine
they wanted airplanes, fine
They wanted it outdoors, fine (but not happy)
They raise the taxes for everything and their grandmother, fine
Now they want to punish us for it?

AND, you know, they will NOT stop there. There is Way to much money in this kind of crusade for them to stop. Its how they keep thier jets and big cars, through "donations" from morons who "DO IT FOR THE CHILDREN".
here in the US the tobacco companies paid out BILLIONS of dollars for "Education" and "Prevention" and "Treatment" for smokers, BULL CRAP. these people, threw 4 commercials on TV and Pocketed the rest.
Supression of others is Big Business.
The exact same for the Alcohol Biddys. M.A.D.D. gets MILLIONS every year, what do they do with it? NO, I am asking, what do they do with it, because they dont do a damn thing other then pass out flyers near bars that I have ever seen.
Once they get to a point where they can not SQUEEZE the life out of smokers, it will be FAT people next. Alcohol is a little to big, that will take time, and piece by piece like they did with tobacco.
Fat will be Easy, it KILLS, and hurts our "Children". McDonalds and others are already under attack here.
See, they learned long ago, when you Add "For the Children" you Can Not Argue Back In Any Way. Or else you look the fool for beating on kids 0_o even if your RIGHT.
There is only 2 ways to actually Fight Back, Through the Courts for Civil Rights Violations, and Through the Government useing their Own Laws against them.
You see when it becomes labled a addictive Drug, you are then "Disabled" and get ALL kinds of things free/like welfare. Being disabled, you can not work, therefor, they need to pay for you once 5 million go on disablity, then they MAY wake up. You Have to hit them in the Pocket and Bnk account, for any revolt to succeed against the Controlers.
The Cradle to grave, babysitting of everyone on the planet because they know better then you how to live Your life, HAS to stop, one way or the other.
Here in the states, we seem to be heading tword socialisum, where the government tells you when to Pee. At that time, Watch the HillBillys come out, and the Fur Fly then.

Its All about money, and how much they can Suck out of you, NOT helping anyone, but them selfs.

Awesome post !

[Kate]

Thanks for the link TBob, I've just had a quick look at the document, I haven't read the whole thing but this is interesting -

"Allow restricted sale of nicotine products that do not meet medicinal purity standards, or have other characteristics likely to represent an appreciable hazard to the user, on condition of:

complete disclosure of design, content and, if relevant, product emissions

evidence that all reasonable attempts have been made to minimise the likely hazard of the product

clinical trial evidence of efficacy as a smoking cessation aid, or effective smoking substitute for temporary abstinence, of at least the same efficacy and acceptability to smokers as existing medicinal nicotine products."

That suggests to me that our eliquid could be sold if labelled and tested in ways that some of us are trying to encourage suppliers and manufacturers anyway. It's just a matter of following good practice with hazardous, addictive substances, something we would benefit from. Regulation would also ensure the quality of the product, we don't want to be vapourising battery acid as Marian suggested might be happening on another thread, lol.

Another thing I can't see happening in the UK is the devices themselves being banned, maybe just nicotine eliquid. As far as I know possessing drug paraphernalia is not against any laws here, it's the substances themselves that have legal problems. That could mean that nicotine for esmoking might get regulated out of existence but we could still use devices for the smoking habit and get nicotine from other sources if necessary. Not ideal but better than not being able to vape at all.

[MagusSteele]

You are right, Kate. I do not see them banning the "Device" it self.
But,
Do you know what the code words "Clinical Trial" means?
That means, 6 years of chemical testing, several years of animal testing, several years of human testing, then regulations, and standards need to be written and approved. THEN, the different government agencys need to approve everything. So on, So on, So on. What it means is, you will NOT be allowed legally use E-cigs with Nicotine for about the next 12 years, IF, some Manufacturer or supplier would like to pony up, oh, about a Billion Dollars to fund this study.

Also, drug paraphernalia can be ammended to include anything in a blink of an eye, with the stroke of a pen.
Remember, IF they classify Nicotine as a Drug, and or regulate it, Anything and Everything connected with it will be outlawed.
I have seen butane torches put on the list. Years ago they tryed to outlaw pay telephones, because a drug user could use it to call for drugs

You can not let ANYthing pass you, once the boy pulls his finger OUT of the dike, it will slowly erode, till your over run with the torrent.

[Kate]

I'm not going to worry about it too much Steele, it'll take them a while to organise in the UK to ban esmoking. There are ongoing clinical trials in New Zealand at the moment on esmoking, results are due in later this year. That will at least be a start towards compliance. The quote I posted above is picked out specifically because it refers to nicotine products other than those that meet medical standards. There is a lesser burden of proof of safety if it's not a medical substance.

I think it's different for you in the US, we aren't likely to have the devices banned, you may face that battle.

Pillbox is already taking likely regulations into account with his Wiked eliquid. He's putting ingredient lists and warnings on labels and looking into getting childproof caps. He's also having his juice lab tested for safety and compliance with labelling. What we need are some more clinical trials like the one commissioned by Ruyan.