New report who - Page 3 - e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat

iamzippy · 09-21-2008, 11:33 PM

Bob
Your ability to touch the nerve is frankly alarming. I agree with your position in just about every post of yours that I've read.
But in the final analysis, all of that which is threatened is prohibition, plain and simple.
Do we not already have lessons learned from this?

TropicalBob · 09-22-2008, 02:45 AM

Oh, I hope so. Prohibition was a disaster and the same would occur with trying to keep the population from nicotine. I hope the "powers that be" understand the potential consequences of any attempt to totally ban tobacco and nicotine. It will lead to the same kind of illegal trade that prohibition created. We need to use science as the base for arguing that e-smoking can be safe and effective in helping hardcore tobacco addicts stay away from inhaling the known dangers of combusted tobacco.

There are many hurdles ahead and we need to acknowledge that our practice at present has problems -- unregulated products of unknown quality and purity. We need to "pay the piper", as tobacco users do, to assure a source of revenue for the costs of regulation. E-smoking will not remain "free". The task for those who make and market e-smoking devices is to fund the scientific research, obtain proper permissions, avoid promises that can't be kept or proven, and carry the torch for us in hearings before regulatory agencies.

iamzippy · 09-22-2008, 10:01 PM

Hmm. And for eBay to offer up (or sellers to choose) a more appropriate category than 'quitting smoking', or whatever. Given that just about every e-cig distributor stresses it's not a 'cessation device', that doesn't help, does it?

I can't avoid this gut feeling that the better these surrogate devices capture the look and feel, the more adversarial the whole deal becomes (read: in your face, government).

Not ideal.

TropicalBob · 09-23-2008, 01:29 PM

This report from RedOrbit has some WHO quotes I've not read in other reports. It pretty much lays out what e-smoking must overcome to get government approval, once that becomes necessary. Electronic Cigarettes Not Proven Safe Or Effective - Health - redOrbit

jimldk · 09-23-2008, 03:54 PM

The Future of e-cigarettes devices and it's liquids lies with a pharmaceutical endorsement...that's the only way it could go...the cons of that is only available thru prescription (i.e. under strict medical control)...

Yes, TB is right...even me agrees that this thing needs a full medical studies if we want it to be acknowledged...the potential abuse is high and it will entices young people to think that it is safe to smoke nicotine devices..that's what scares them(WHO)....no matter how good(or bad) my clinical trials results, it won't even budge them and it will only trigger a bigger onslaught(more like waves) to diminish the known effect and the progress of this devices....we will have to wait and see..meanwhile we have to go underground....for now.

TropicalBob · 09-23-2008, 03:58 PM

Good to see you post on this, Dr. Loi. We don't hear from you often (knowing that you're a busy doctor) and we wish you all the best with your own research and trials.

I wish we had a web cam in your office!

jimldk · 09-23-2008, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TropicalBob

Good to see you post on this, Dr. Loi. We don't hear from you often (knowing that you're a busy doctor) and we wish you all the best with your own research and trials.

I wish we had a web cam in your office!

Hi ya Bob....sorry, been really out recently...had a lot of stress ...wish I had a webcam too (at home now)...

Trials results are being compiled and tabulated...good overall but will it be enough to convince the almighty WHO.....???

Gonna get tough my friend...and i need more than luck this time...

Nazareth · 09-23-2008, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimldk

The Future of e-cigarettes devices and it's liquids lies with a pharmaceutical endorsement...that's the only way it could go...the cons of that is only available thru prescription (i.e. under strict medical control)...

Yes, TB is right...even me agrees that this thing needs a full medical studies if we want it to be acknowledged...the potential abuse is high and it will entices young people to think that it is safe to smoke nicotine devices..that's what scares them(WHO)....no matter how good(or bad) my clinical trials results, it won't even budge them and it will only trigger a bigger onslaught(more like waves) to diminish the known effect and the progress of this devices....we will have to wait and see..meanwhile we have to go underground....for now.

Probably at worst- all that is going to be needed are 3 things- one, that manufacturers and sellers stop promoting it as a smoking sessation device (even htough there is enough ample testimonials it indeed does help some people stop- and if a clinical trail could be conducted, even htis requirement by the WHO could be dropped IF it is found the device indeed does help people quit) and two, that warning labels be installed on the packages, and 3 that it not be sold to teens. If big tobacco has not come under perscription only category, then I just can't see somethign that in most likelihood is much much safer would fall under that category either

Ruby · 09-23-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nazareth

... 3 that it not be sold to teens. If big tobacco has not come under perscription only category, then I just can't see somethign that in most likelihood is much much safer would fall under that category either

Good points here - why should cigarettes not be branded pharmaceutically then??? I'd take a guess at the fact that it suits them for us to smoke contrary to all their bans and hype about it.

The worrying bit is teen use - how does an internet seller know they are not selling to an underage person? With cigs if the shop owner suspects they are underage they are asked to produce ID.

TropicalBob · 09-23-2008, 06:38 PM

Please, understand your government agencies. In the United States, tobacco products have their own regulatory agency, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. The Food and Drug Administration has not had power over tobacco (but Congress is about to change that). Nicotine is another matter. The FDA has jurisdiction over all drugs. E-cigs are NOT a tobacco product. We are a nicotine delivery system, pure and simple. A drug delivery system. Just like Big Pharma's inhaler, etc. The FDA can demand extensive and expensive trials that will take years, while banning our products until those trials are completed and passed on.

This will not be a walk in the park while we all e-puff and quote the amazing things e-smoking has done for us. Take off the rose-colored glasses, folks. They warp reality. And start a collection to bail Dr. Loi out of a Malaysian jail! What is he up to?

09-21-2008, 11:33 PM	#21
iamzippy Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 6	Umpteenth Time Around? Bob Your ability to touch the nerve is frankly alarming. I agree with your position in just about every post of yours that I've read. But in the final analysis, all of that which is threatened is prohibition, plain and simple. Do we not already have lessons learned from this?

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

09-22-2008, 02:45 AM	#22
TropicalBob ECF Veteran Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Charlotte, FL USA Posts: 5,076	Oh, I hope so. Prohibition was a disaster and the same would occur with trying to keep the population from nicotine. I hope the "powers that be" understand the potential consequences of any attempt to totally ban tobacco and nicotine. It will lead to the same kind of illegal trade that prohibition created. We need to use science as the base for arguing that e-smoking can be safe and effective in helping hardcore tobacco addicts stay away from inhaling the known dangers of combusted tobacco. There are many hurdles ahead and we need to acknowledge that our practice at present has problems -- unregulated products of unknown quality and purity. We need to "pay the piper", as tobacco users do, to assure a source of revenue for the costs of regulation. E-smoking will not remain "free". The task for those who make and market e-smoking devices is to fund the scientific research, obtain proper permissions, avoid promises that can't be kept or proven, and carry the torch for us in hearings before regulatory agencies.

09-22-2008, 10:01 PM	#23
iamzippy Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 6	Hmm. And for eBay to offer up (or sellers to choose) a more appropriate category than 'quitting smoking', or whatever. Given that just about every e-cig distributor stresses it's not a 'cessation device', that doesn't help, does it? I can't avoid this gut feeling that the better these surrogate devices capture the look and feel, the more adversarial the whole deal becomes (read: in your face, government). Not ideal.

09-23-2008, 01:29 PM	#24
TropicalBob ECF Veteran Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Charlotte, FL USA Posts: 5,076	This report from RedOrbit has some WHO quotes I've not read in other reports. It pretty much lays out what e-smoking must overcome to get government approval, once that becomes necessary. Electronic Cigarettes Not Proven Safe Or Effective - Health - redOrbit

09-23-2008, 03:54 PM	#25
jimldk Supporting Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Posts: 453	The Future of e-cigarettes devices and it's liquids lies with a pharmaceutical endorsement...that's the only way it could go...the cons of that is only available thru prescription (i.e. under strict medical control)... Yes, TB is right...even me agrees that this thing needs a full medical studies if we want it to be acknowledged...the potential abuse is high and it will entices young people to think that it is safe to smoke nicotine devices..that's what scares them(WHO)....no matter how good(or bad) my clinical trials results, it won't even budge them and it will only trigger a bigger onslaught(more like waves) to diminish the known effect and the progress of this devices....we will have to wait and see..meanwhile we have to go underground....for now.

09-23-2008, 03:58 PM	#26
TropicalBob ECF Veteran Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Charlotte, FL USA Posts: 5,076	Good to see you post on this, Dr. Loi. We don't hear from you often (knowing that you're a busy doctor) and we wish you all the best with your own research and trials. I wish we had a web cam in your office!

09-23-2008, 06:38 PM	#30
TropicalBob ECF Veteran Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Charlotte, FL USA Posts: 5,076	Please, understand your government agencies. In the United States, tobacco products have their own regulatory agency, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. The Food and Drug Administration has not had power over tobacco (but Congress is about to change that). Nicotine is another matter. The FDA has jurisdiction over all drugs. E-cigs are NOT a tobacco product. We are a nicotine delivery system, pure and simple. A drug delivery system. Just like Big Pharma's inhaler, etc. The FDA can demand extensive and expensive trials that will take years, while banning our products until those trials are completed and passed on. This will not be a walk in the park while we all e-puff and quote the amazing things e-smoking has done for us. Take off the rose-colored glasses, folks. They warp reality. And start a collection to bail Dr. Loi out of a Malaysian jail! What is he up to?