WHO seeks to push for clinical testing of PG at Big Smoke's expense

[onoua]

I think the point is not what e-cigs resemble to but what they do. Sooner or later there will be a situation where e-cigs will need to prove that not only they are better compared to traditional cigarettes but also that they are more or less harmless in order to be accepted.

At the end I don't believe that they will do whatever possible to get people off cigarettes but allow them to have e-cigs. Just don't make sense.

Regarding cigarette companies not going electric, I still not see what the point is at the moment. E-cigs have acquired a market share that it is not even 0,005% of total cigarette market. What's the point of killing their billion dollar profits just to compete with various suppliers selling nicotine cartridges and juice at prices that are only a fraction of the price of cigarettes?

[dc2k08]

Regarding cigarette companies not going electric, I still not see what the point is at the moment. E-cigs have acquired a market share that it is not even 0,005% of total cigarette market. What's the point of killing their billion dollar profits just to compete with various suppliers selling nicotine cartridges and juice at prices that are only a fraction of the price of cigarettes?.

For me at least, i see the comparison to GM and the story of its electric car the EV1, the bulk of them which are now landfilled in nevada even after mass protests against the decision. true that there was not going to be much profit it in immediately and perhaps they were under pressure and bowed to oil companies and other profiteers in the gas engine chain but it would have done a huge amount for brand-image.

there was similar a similar love for the EV1 as I see for eletronic cigarette. Also the market share for the electronic cigarette would change over night if it was incorporated into tobacco's distribution network. but perhaps like GM, they just like it how it is and think they can keep it that way.

Originally Posted by Rick Wagoner, GM CEO on his regrets

Axing the EV1 electric-car program and not putting the right resources into hybrids. It didn't affect profitability, but it did affect image.

[TropicalBob]

Remember in all this that tobacco companies make tobacco products. They do not make electronic gizmos that don't use tobacco. We don't think of them as smoking companies; they're tobacco companies.

Their previous efforts at vaporizing involved tobacco products!

I still think they don't consider e-smoking any more serious than a dog considers a single flea on his hairy body. We are nothing to them. Smokeless is where it's at; and smokeless -- glory hallalujah -- uses TOBACCO.

[sixstring]

Originally Posted by TropicalBob

Remember in all this that tobacco companies make tobacco products. They do not make electronic gizmos that don't use tobacco. We don't think of them as smoking companies; they're tobacco companies.

Their previous efforts at vaporizing involved tobacco products!

I still think they don't consider e-smoking any more serious than a dog considers a single flea on his hairy body. We are nothing to them. Smokeless is where it's at; and smokeless -- glory hallalujah -- uses TOBACCO.

I agree for now. But, fleas lay eggs and they hatch...

It may be awhile, but as you said before "follow the money"

[cucurucho]

Originally Posted by TropicalBob

Remember in all this that tobacco companies make tobacco products. They do not make electronic gizmos that don't use tobacco. We don't think of them as smoking companies; they're tobacco companies.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the nicotine in e-juices extracted from tobacco?

[dc2k08]

but it does appear that they are willing to embrace gadgetry as proven by their failed accord model which cost them $200 million to design. but then there was also their secretive nicotine delivery system that they sillenced. and this is what i dont get. why are they only willing to profit from the sale of whole processed sheet tobacco and not just the safer component of that crop alone...nicotine. what is preventing them from taking the filler out. they add 400 other ingredients to their cigarettes anyway so its not like they are conservatives. to be honest i think there are people behind closed doors that have a vested interest in not wanting me to know the full answer to that question.

in an earlier post, i wondered why WHO's meeting in Durban was not phasing Big Tobacco and why it was not a concern in PM's talk to their investors yesterday. The answer is simple. They are not concerned with our markets any longer. Their whole speech was centered around the measures they are taking to position themselves in emerging markets. Markets where Big Tobacco is in bed with the governments which will not be adhering to WHO's guidelines and only showed up at Durban to show face.

Already this week Japan and Indonesia were criticised for being in league with Big Tobacco at Durban and for preventing any anti-tobacco treaty from being realised. They would have too much to lose by implementing any advice WHO has to offer and Big Tobacco knows this.

Yesterday, The CEO of Philip Morris in his speech to their investors was gleeful of the fact that even though Indonesia had reduced fuel subsidies for its population, even though the price of fuel oil, critical for the survival of families had increased 30%, even though there was huge double digit inflation in the country, his company enjoyed a healthy growth as the government allowed cigarettes to be sold as singles, which was not a burden on disposable income and had become the preferred method of distributing his product there. this gave Louis "a warm sense".

I was particularly struck by his answer to the last question on what contribution he expected China to make to PM's earnings over the next 1-3 years. his answer is worth transcribing in full.

Immaterial, listen we've always said this is a ten year thing...before it starts hitting the needle...CNTC is a very important company in China, strategically very important for the government..as we've said countless times, with 10% of government revenues, its the most profitable company in China bar none...and it has a huge strategic relevence in terms of the government's focus on rural areas in terms of tobacco farming...where there are millions of farmers who take their livlihood from the tobacco industry...as i have said, we have as an ambition to become CNTC's key strategic partner...we have a dual strategy, one is the international joint venture, the other is Marlboro manufactures and under licences in China..but to be realisitic, its going to take five to ten years before its going to impact our results in any manner..meaningful manner. But the prize is worth the wait.... It's 37% of the world's consumption of cigarettes..and very lucrative.

[sixstring]

Originally Posted by dc2k08

his company enjoyed a healthy growth as the government allowed cigarettes to be sold as singles, which was not a burden on disposable income and had become the preferred method of distributing his product there. this gave Louis "a warm sense".

PUTZ.

[TropicalBob]

Another way of saying why Big Tobacco is not interested in our technological toys. Big Tobacco is not a chemical processor, just a mixer. It does not make nicotine. It buys nicotine, in fact. Its push with the Accord was solely because tobacco tubes were used (the tobacco coated with propylene glycol for vapor purposes). It would support a product that used tobacco in tubes, but has no interest in supporting a product using chemicals it doesn't make. And its investment in cigarette manufacturing equipment means it won't be investing in chemical processing equipment.

But maybe there is more, as DC suggests. Maybe we aren't the future. Maybe we only think we are. Is the Wall Street person right who told investors e-smoking would capture only 1 percent of the smoking market?

As cigarette smoking declines, and it will, many will use NRT to quit, and Big Pharma expects $14-billion sales years for its quit-smoking products soon. Some will quit cold turkey. Many will turn to smokeless (2 million Americans did that last year and that trend is growing).

But I think Big Tobacco sees its future outside America, and perhaps outside even Europe. Many countries are so dependent on tobacco product taxes that support for alternative smoking methods will be zip, zero, nil and absent -- when not openly hostile. If PM could capture even part of China, or India, well .. who needs e-smoking?

[clarke187]

At least the US usually ignores the WHO...

[dc2k08]

Big Tobacco Seeks Safer Cigarettes : NPR

Check out that story too from NPR yesterday.

Tobacco giant Philip Morris has staked its future on its Center for Research and Technology in Richmond, Va. With its whimsical, bright-colored furniture, the $350 million compound more closely resembles an art school than a research facility. The glass building boasts cantilevered stairways, quirky activity stations and Pablo Picasso quotes near the elevators — all aimed at stimulating innovation.

Most of the scientists sit in the center of the building or, as Rick Solana calls it, "the canvas."

"What they've been working on here recently is the sensory and the flavor impact of product designs that have the potential of being reduced-risk cigarettes," says Solana, Philip Morris USA's senior vice president for health sciences.

its spent 350 million on a high end labratory and employs a team of scientists to research new adventures in tobacco but cant spend money on introducing the infrastructure to extract nicotine from its core crop. i just find it strange.

"Obviously the incidence of smoking is going down in the U.S., and the best thing that someone can do to reduce their risks of smoking is to quit," Solana says. "So that decline is good for public health and should continue. What will happen in the future I can't predict, but for those people who continue to smoke and choose to smoke, they need an alternative that might reduce their risks."

even if they were to just attach their name to a manufacturer in china and agree to distribute electronic cigarettes for a large percentage, their entire brand-image would improve superbly overnight.

this is just an opinion but i am starting to think that truthfully governments are in love with tobacco. its an easy ticket to collect stupid-tax and also serves as a means to have older people who have become a burden to the economy die earlier as they cease working and contributing to the cycle. Its a game they play, all the time pretending they are doing everything possible to get people off tobacco but only holding loose reins to the industry and the reality couldnt be further from the truth.

At least the US usually ignores the WHO...

and that's exactly the reason.