U.S.A: PACT Act 2009

[DRR91075]

We need to fight progressives in this country. In their mind, they know better than you. The progressive statist wants to control you, because they want to help you!

Educate yourself about the early 20th century progressives, that what these people model themselves after. The Woodrow Wilson's of history, the eugenics crowd, the societal archetect crowd.

Oh No! Did Mark Levin and Glen Beck have a child together?

Seriously, jadeninja, progressives are not your enemy on this one. We (yes, I am a progressive) are vapers too and we don't like it any more than you. This is not a left vs. right issue. I've written my representatives and senators. Everyone should do the same. It is our only recourse.

[olderthandirt]

...
Seriously, jadeninja, progressives are not your enemy on this one. We (yes, I am a progressive) are vapers too and we don't like it any more than you. This is not a left vs. right issue. I've written my representatives and senators. Everyone should do the same. It is our only recourse.

Agree with DRR on that one! In another thread today, Bardic Druid reminded of a similar bill, H.R. 1676. This one actually made it out of committee and as far as a vote in the House of Representatives. The only significant difference between the 2 bills is that H.R.1676 excludes cigars and S. 1147 includes cigars.

What is relevant here, I think it is at least, is how the vote went on H.R. 1676.
Dems Yea 238, Nay 2 and No Vote 15
Reps Yea 159, Nay 9 and No Vote 10.

No, progressives, conservatives, not the issue. $$ and perceived lost revenue is the crux on this particular one.

Damn, into committee, out of committee, to the "floor" for a vote back to... I need to redo a civics class to keep this all straight in my old head...

[jadeninja]

Our best bet is Obama gets on the wrong side of big tobacco somehow, the way he got on the wrong side of the media when he jumped FOX news and the other medias stood with FOX, those media outlets look at Obama different today than they did...all it takes is for enough power house's to line up against him and he's toast, I hope the Senate is next power house to lineup against BO...remember what happened to the governor of Illinois when the powers lined up against him....

If we have to rely on P-BO or big tobacco, then we are all doomed. And being from Illinois, which governor, cuz we are about to have 2 in a row go to jail.

The thing that is on our side is the facts. E cigs contain no known carcinogens, (execept for tobacco based nitrosamines and in such a small amount that it is more harmful to eat a fried chicken leg than vape).
Ecigs have revolutionalized nicotine intake. They are taking off like wild fire.

We stand up for our rights, they will not be able to ban them. Regulate at best, they may try, but will fail. BUT, we must stand up to the powers that be. We must email, write, call, show up, and get in the face of these bureaucrats and politicians and say, "No, you will not take away our right to have our nicotine." "No, you will not stand in the way of small businesses sprouting up all over the nation." "NO YOU WILL NOT BAN E CIGS, BECAUSE IF YOU DO THEN BAN TOBACCO ALTOGHETHER"

For them to stand in the way of a really safer alternative is ludicrous. It will not stand. We will bring doctors, lawyers, like minded politicans and they will see the light. It doesn't make sense.

I am also really tired of hearing the arguement about taxing and regulation and "Big Tobacco" and all the rest. When the hell are we going to get off our collective asses and stand up to this. This is AN INNOVATION THAT HAS REVOLUTIONALIZED SMOKING AND CONSUMPTION OF NICOTINE!!!! Not since the invention of the FREAKING light bulb, personal computer, or the internet has a device come along that has really changed things for the better for thousands on thousands and soon to be millions upon millions of people. I will NOT HAVE THIS TAKEN AWAY ANY MORE THAN MY MORNING CUP OF COFFEE OR THE BRITS ON THIS BOARD WOULD BE PARTED WITH THEIR 4 O'CLOCK TEA.

So stop whining about lobby groups and tax hungry congressmen and do something. Talk to smokers, let them try vaping, get them to try and maybe convert. The more numbers we have the better. Address the FDA's concerns; demand ingredients labels from eliquid and cart distributors. I only buy liquid from companies that list ingredients. The stupid "it's for the children" card is just that, stupid. YOU HAVE TO BE 18 OR OLDER TO HAVE A CREDIT CARD OR BANK ACCOUNT WITH DEBIT CAPABILITIES WITH ONLY YOUR NAME. If they want to stop sales to minors, the tools are already there. If you give a kid a debit card, the kid buys e-cigs online, and has them shipped to your house, and has the equipment in your house and you are too stupid or absent to notice, THEN YOU GET FINED. Enough of this. ENOUGH ENOUGH E - GOD - DAMN NOUGH.

We can't count on Barack Hussein Obama, Nanny State Pelosi, Harry "Realestate" Reid, Little **** Durbin, or any of the politicians or bureaucrats to do a thing for us. So we stand up, in great number,s NOT TO BE IGNORED.

Do your part, what ever that is, what ever you think will work (legally). Make your voice heard.

Jason

[jadeninja]

Oh No! Did Mark Levin and Glen Beck have a child together?

Seriously, jadeninja, progressives are not your enemy on this one. We (yes, I am a progressive) are vapers too and we don't like it any more than you. This is not a left vs. right issue. I've written my representatives and senators. Everyone should do the same. It is our only recourse.

Thanks for the insult, I guess that's what that's suppose to be. Firstly, progressivism is not really a right or left belief. It happens to be shared by both parties. Dare I say it, George W. Bush is a progressive(Medicare Rx, No Child Left Behind, Every Spending Bill that crossed his desk, Nation building, I can go on). A true progressive believes in the growth of government as a protector of it's citizenry in all aspects of life. True progressivism seeks a society that works towards collective goal set forth by the leadership of the society to futher the common good. In the process, it crushes individualism. It crushes the entrepreneurial drive. Most e-cig retailers are entrepreneurs. This is the progressive mentality. Progressivism takes it's roots back to Teddy Roosevelt (a republican) and Woodrow Wilson (well if you can't say anything nice . . . )

Progressivism in it's roots, believed in eugenics. During the 20's and 30's eugenics (the breeding out of the undesirable) was explored as policy of the US during this period, and in the 40's carried out by the National Socialist Party in Germany.

With that flash grenade, most modern day progressive ideology has turned away from the eugenics idea from actual people, and cast in the light of the structure of society and it's innerworkings as a whole. The modern day progressive focuses more on behaviors of people (example, the anti smoking lobby & the anti transfat lobby) These progressives really only want to help people live and be better people for the betterment of society as a whole. A progressive in power looks at the people as in need of compassion and help in the right direction. (Read any health departments goals and initiative standards) Because we don't know any better. . .

So we can stop with the RIGHT or LEFT crap, because progressivism calls home to both sides. The policital spectrum is not linear. It's multi dimensional. POLISCI 101. Not to be insulting to anyone, but to be a true progressive, you are willing to sacrifice liberty for security. A famous quote from one of the founders, if you haven't heard it you should look it up.

[olderthandirt]

...
I am also really tired of hearing the arguement about taxing and regulation and "Big Tobacco" and all the rest. When the hell are we going to get off our collective asses and stand up to this. This is AN INNOVATION THAT HAS REVOLUTIONALIZED SMOKING AND CONSUMPTION OF NICOTINE!!!! Not since the invention of the FREAKING light bulb, personal computer, or the internet has a device come along that has really changed things for the better for thousands on thousands and soon to be millions upon millions of people. I will NOT HAVE THIS TAKEN AWAY ANY MORE THAN MY MORNING CUP OF COFFEE OR THE BRITS ON THIS BOARD WOULD BE PARTED WITH THEIR 4 O'CLOCK TEA.

So stop whining about lobby groups and tax hungry congressmen and do something.
... THEN YOU GET FINED. Enough of this. ENOUGH ENOUGH E - GOD - DAMN NOUGH.

We can't count on Barack Hussein Obama, Nanny State Pelosi, Harry "Realestate" Reid, Little **** Durbin, or any of the politicians or bureaucrats to do a thing for us. So we stand up, in great number,s NOT TO BE IGNORED.

Do your part, what ever that is, what ever you think will work (legally). Make your voice heard.

Jason

Aww c'mon Jason, tell us how ya really feel. lame J/K

Seriously though, wouldn't better understanding of the legislative processes involved in such as the fore mentioned bills be a valid approach to addressing our concerns?

Indignant voices are only a small part of the actions that need to be taken by "we the people". Actions that hit the parties we whine about where it hurts, their bank accounts, will go much further I'm thinking.

Study and understanding of the legislative process identifies the politicos that need to be spanked. Calm and methodical campaigns by "we the people" to the people in all states and districts to unseat said identified politicos will either in fact unseat them or wake em up that they might lose their jobs, hence hit em in their wallets.

just sayin....

OBTW, 2 of the 3 Co-sponsers of H.R. 1676 are Republican, Issa from CA and Smith from TX

[jadeninja]

Agree with DRR on that one! In another thread today, Bardic Druid reminded of a similar bill, H.R. 1676. This one actually made it out of committee and as far as a vote in the House of Representatives. The only significant difference between the 2 bills is that H.R.1676 excludes cigars and S. 1147 includes cigars.

What is relevant here, I think it is at least, is how the vote went on H.R. 1676.
Dems Yea 238, Nay 2 and No Vote 15
Reps Yea 159, Nay 9 and No Vote 10.

No, progressives, conservatives, not the issue. $$ and perceived lost revenue is the crux on this particular one.

Damn, into committee, out of committee, to the "floor" for a vote back to... I need to redo a civics class to keep this all straight in my old head...

I am with you on the money issue. It's always about "OUR" money, and how much can they take. Please take a minute to glance at my polisci101 post. Many people think that when I say progressive I mean democrat. I don't. There are just as many progressives in the republican party as there are with the dems. Progressivism is a term loosely thrown around and link to liberalism, it's not. There are good democrats out there that believe in constituionalism. Problem is there is not enough of them in office. Most people who think they are progressives might change their tune when they find out what it is really about.

It's one of those feel good terms. I mean who wants to stand it the way of "progress". Question is: "Progress" twords what?

I keep this up, I am going to own this page of the thread.

Peace-

Jason

[jadeninja]

Aww c'mon Jason, tell us how ya really feel. lame J/K

Seriously though, wouldn't better understanding of the legislative processes involved in such as the fore mentioned bills be a valid approach to addressing our concerns?

Indignant voices are only a small part of the actions that need to be taken by "we the people". Actions that hit the parties we whine about where it hurts, their bank accounts, will go much further I'm thinking.

Study and understanding of the legislative process identifies the politicos that need to be spanked. Calm and methodical campaigns by "we the people" to the people in all states and districts to unseat said identified politicos will either in fact unseat them or wake em up that they might lose their jobs, hence hit em in their wallets.

just sayin....

OBTW, 2 of the 3 Co-sponsers of H.R. 1676 are Republican, Issa from CA and Smith from TX

You got my point! It's not just about being indignant. Although, that can be fun! You just pointed out an idea. That's what I meant in my last paragraph. Brainstorm and idea. Little fire and brimstone. Making people aware and to participate in the political process at the local level, the primary level, the caucus level, and the national level.

I want to get people fire up. Then they ask themselves and others the question, "What can I do now?"

And if I may point out, you may have answer that question for one or more. So PHAT PROPS. That's what we need. Ideas through engagement.

[olderthandirt]

And I thank you! Made me look into the term progressive as it's used in politics. Yep, I had liberal in mind and nothing more. Appears to be so wrong!

Community college, civics 101, ayup! I need to be there!

[jadeninja]

I just got a 401 with a USB passthrough and IT IS AWESOME. Vaping some JC Peach, which is very tasty (reduced PG formula). Dip method, no cart. MAD VAPOR, SIC THROAT HIT, AWESOME FLAVOR.

[jadeninja]

And I thank you! Made me look into the term progressive as it's used in politics. Yep, I had liberal in mind and nothing more. Appears to be so wrong!

Community college, civics 101, ayup! I need to be there!

No problem, and props for wanting to continue education. I have been a political junkie since I could talk. I love arguing politics. If I could vape political science, I would

Hey Johnson Creek, get on that for me.