U.S.A: PACT Act 2009

[JerryRM]

It's clear that this bill will pass the Senate. And Obama, smoker or not, will sign it into law. I am 100% sure of that. But it seems pretty clear that the language of the law omits electronic cigarettes and nicotine juices. They are not tobacco products under the letter of this law. If the bill passes and the Feds start cracking down on e-cigs and juice shipments through the USPS, I think the e-cig industry could have a lawsuit on their hands. We can only hope some ACLU lawyer likes to vape!

Of course, if the FDA decides to classify e-cigs as a tobacco product, then we're all screwed. I think, either way, it's time to seriously stock up on as much as you can afford in the way of juice, atomizers, extra batteries, carts, etc.

But in the meantime, even if this bill passes into law, I would hope that e-cig and juice companies in the US will continue to operate as usual in protest of this foolish law.

So, if the e-cig is classified as a tobacco product, then we are screwed by the PACT Act, and if it's classified as a drug/device, then the FDA will screw us.

In the 20's, they had "speakeasies" and "bathtub gin", I guess we will need "vapeasies" and "bathtub e-juice"!

[Sun Vaporer]

So, if the e-cig is classified as a tobacco product, then we are screwed by the PACT Act, and if it's classified as a drug/device, then the FDA will screw us.

In the 20's, they had "speakeasies" and "bathtub gin", I guess we will need "vapeasies" and "bathtub e-juice"!

Now you are starting to think Jerry---Would'nt that be nice for Judge Leon--a second piece of legislation to help him out.


Sun

[JerryRM]

Now you are starting to think Jerry---Would'nt that be nice for Judge Leon--a second piece of legislation to help him out.


Sun

You surprised me Sun! I am so used to seeing you on the other thread, that I had to check to see which thread I was on. lol.

I think you mean, for him to classify it in a separate category? Am I right?

(it's getting late and my brain is starting to go on shutdown mode).

[Sun Vaporer]

You surprised me Sun! I am so used to seeing you on the other thread, that I had to check to see which thread I was on. lol.

I think you mean, for him to classify it in a separate category? Am I right?

(it's getting late and my brain is starting to go on shutdown mode).

Look at it this way, best case senerio was thought that if Judge Leon rules it a tobacco product and not a drug---with this new legistlation, how it the tobacco product ruling look now?

Sun

[JerryRM]

Look at it this way, best case senerio was thought that if Judge Leon rules it a tobacco product and not a drug---with this new legistlation, how it the tobacco product ruling look now?

Sun

Either way, "dam*ed if you do and dam*ed if you don't", or should I say "banned if you do and banned if you don't". Maybe that's why the ruling has taken so long.

[Sun Vaporer]

Either way, "dam*ed if you do and dam*ed if you don't", or should I say "banned if you do and banned if you don't". Maybe that's why the ruling has taken so long.

Jerry--I would say I finally dragged it out of you--LOL. Judge Leon rules it is a Tobacco product--and now you have this legislation to deal with. Looks like a clean play for him.


Sun

[JerryRM]

Jerry--I would say I finally dragged it out of you--LOL. Judge Leon rules it is a Tobacco product--and now you have this legislation to deal with. Looks like a clean play for him.


Sun

Thanks Sun, you have enlightened me.

It time to sign off, so goodnight everyone and have a pleasant day tomorrow.

[yvilla]

I believe it has been already posted here before, but you guys seem to be ignoring it. I hate this legislation as much as any of you, but it does not, in its current terms, apply to ecigs.

It applies to cigarettes, as specifically defined in section 2341 of Title 18 of the US Code, as follows:

(1) the term “cigarette” means—
(A) any roll of tobacco wrapped in paper or in any substance not containing tobacco; and
(B) any roll of tobacco wrapped in any substance containing tobacco which, because of its appearance, the type of tobacco used in the filler, or its packaging and labeling, is likely to be offered to, or purchased by, consumers as a cigarette described in subparagraph (A);

And it applies to smokeless tobacco, defined in the Pact Act itself, as follows:

(14) SMOKELESS TOBACCO- The term ‘smokeless tobacco’ means any finely cut, ground, powdered, or leaf tobacco, or other product containing tobacco, that is intended to be placed in the oral or nasal cavity or otherwise consumed without being combusted.

GovTrack: H.R. 1676: Text of Legislation, Referred in Senate

Neither of those definitions would cover ecigs or nic liquid.

[JLeigh]

I believe it has been already posted here before, but you guys seem to be ignoring it. I hate this legislation as much as any of you, but it does not, in its current terms, apply to ecigs.

It applies to cigarettes, as specifically defined in section 2341 of Title 18 of the US Code, as follows:

(1) the term “cigarette” means—
(A) any roll of tobacco wrapped in paper or in any substance not containing tobacco; and
(B) any roll of tobacco wrapped in any substance containing tobacco which, because of its appearance, the type of tobacco used in the filler, or its packaging and labeling, is likely to be offered to, or purchased by, consumers as a cigarette described in subparagraph (A);

And it applies to smokeless tobacco, defined in the Pact Act itself, as follows:

(14) SMOKELESS TOBACCO- The term ‘smokeless tobacco’ means any finely cut, ground, powdered, or leaf tobacco, or other product containing tobacco, that is intended to be placed in the oral or nasal cavity or otherwise consumed without being combusted.

GovTrack: H.R. 1676: Text of Legislation, Referred in Senate

Neither of those definitions would cover ecigs or nic liquid.

Ahh. So my next question would be, IF Judge Leon ruled for SE and labels nic liquid as a tobacco product, would this even apply to nic liquid or e-cigs? If I'm reading this correctly, even if SE won this round, nic liquid STILL wouldn't fall under the PACT Act defining cigarettes or smokeless tobacco. Am I right or wrong?

[Sun Vaporer]

Ahh. So my next question would be, IF Judge Leon ruled for SE and labels nic liquid as a tobacco product, would this even apply to nic liquid or e-cigs? If I'm reading this correctly, even if SE won this round, nic liquid STILL wouldn't fall under the PACT Act defining cigarettes or smokeless tobacco. Am I right or wrong?

You are neither right or wrong---this game is wide open, but one thing is for sure, if Judge Leon does rule that the e-cig is a tobacco product, the e-cig will have to take the rights as well as the liabilities of being a tobacco product. These issues are never black or white. So bottom line is stay tuned.

Sun