U.S.A: PACT Act 2009 - Page 29 - E-Cigarette Forum

oldlady · 11-22-2009, 02:55 AM

Please correct me if I am wrong, but the way I read the PACT ACT:

1. Neither e-cigarettes nor nic-liquid fall into the very specific definitions included in the text of the act. Thus, an entirely new round of legislation would be needed to amend the act to cover them.

2. The text does not ban anything. It merely requires that federal and state taxes be paid on cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products (snuff and snuz) sent through the U.S. postal service. Thus, if you want to mail your friend a pack of cigarettes, you must label the package according to government instructions, and your friend has to present a picture ID and pay the taxes to receive the package.

Okay, so no more buying cartons from Ukraine off the Internet. Sucks, but there you have it. I wonder whether the legislation applies to packages sent via FedEx, DHL or other carriers?

Anyway, I agree with others that the goverment will need to spend a lot of time and money to enforce the new law--probably more than it will collect in additional revenues. Based on this assumption alone, I would oppose the PACT Act even if I was a non-smoker.

Who knows perhaps someone in the U.S. Senate has some common sense?

Slickstick · 11-22-2009, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldlady

Who knows perhaps someone in the U.S. Senate has some common sense?

Stubby · 11-22-2009, 03:18 AM

Oldlady: Not quite there, My understanding is this

The USPSl will not ship any tobacco products except cigars (I believe USPS will ship cigars but I'm not sure about that one). The only way to ship tobacco will be through a private carrier (UPS, FedEx, etc). Taxes are paid at the point of sale, not when the package is received, and yes age verification when the package is received.

Webby · 11-22-2009, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stubby

Oldlady: Not quite there, My understanding is this

The USPSl will not ship any tobacco products except cigars (I believe USPS will ship cigars but I'm not sure about that one). The only way to ship tobacco will be through a private carrier (UPS, FedEx, etc). Taxes are paid at the point of sale, not when the package is received, and yes age verification when the package is received.

Big issue there - which carriers actually do any kind of age verification?

ladysolitary85 · 11-22-2009, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryRM

I think we should have a memorial service for Jules. She gave her life for the benefit of all e-cig users. Maybe an ECF medal is in order too.

Where DID Jule's go anyways???

We will know soon... hopefully.

Slickstick · 11-22-2009, 03:51 AM

She's either in the hospital, or dead. She attempted to make this stuff herself from store bought tobacco, so she claims. I would assume something bad happened because I haven't seen her on the other forums either. (on my sig) Which I believe she may be the founder of.

ladysolitary85 · 11-22-2009, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaporHead4Life

She's either in the hospital, or dead. She attempted to make this stuff herself from store bought tobacco, so she claims. I would assume something bad happened because I haven't seen her on the other forums either. (on my sig) Which I believe she may be the founder of.

Well lets not think the worst just yet. Give it a day if she doesn't pop up then worry. Something else could have popped up.

JustJulie · 11-22-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stubby

Oldlady: Not quite there, My understanding is this

The USPSl will not ship any tobacco products except cigars (I believe USPS will ship cigars but I'm not sure about that one). The only way to ship tobacco will be through a private carrier (UPS, FedEx, etc). Taxes are paid at the point of sale, not when the package is received, and yes age verification when the package is received.

To add yet another wrinkle to the story, it is my understanding that DHL, UPS, and FedEx have voluntarily agreed not to ship tobacco products. This has been going on for a few years now.

Slickstick · 11-22-2009, 02:18 PM

its all good we will just label them differently if we have to. The smaller companies will stay in business.

TropicalBob · 11-22-2009, 02:41 PM

JustJulie, I've read the same thing. This is a move to stop interstate delivery of cigarettes and smokeless tobacco to individuals. Businesses that sell must register and keep records -- and collect taxes. They can get delivery. But the postal service will be forbidden to deliver to a private residence, and all other carriers (FedEX, DHL, UPS, etc) have agreed not to deliver tobacco products.

It is NOT "all good." And it would take a fool to defy a regulation like this and face the wrath of an angry federal agency that can levy a huge fine for a single violation. No, this is not all good at all.

Yvilla, might there be fine print somewhere about delivery of nicotine products? I haven't read it all, but how hard would it be to declare e-liquid a hazardous substance that cannot be mailed because it contains a toxic poison and addictive substance? I agree e-cigs are not named in the PACT act. But I can't see the government just looking the other way if e-cigs are overlooked.

11-22-2009, 02:55 AM	#281
oldlady Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 207	Pact act Please correct me if I am wrong, but the way I read the PACT ACT: 1. Neither e-cigarettes nor nic-liquid fall into the very specific definitions included in the text of the act. Thus, an entirely new round of legislation would be needed to amend the act to cover them. 2. The text does not ban anything. It merely requires that federal and state taxes be paid on cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products (snuff and snuz) sent through the U.S. postal service. Thus, if you want to mail your friend a pack of cigarettes, you must label the package according to government instructions, and your friend has to present a picture ID and pay the taxes to receive the package. Okay, so no more buying cartons from Ukraine off the Internet. Sucks, but there you have it. I wonder whether the legislation applies to packages sent via FedEx, DHL or other carriers? Anyway, I agree with others that the goverment will need to spend a lot of time and money to enforce the new law--probably more than it will collect in additional revenues. Based on this assumption alone, I would oppose the PACT Act even if I was a non-smoker. Who knows perhaps someone in the U.S. Senate has some common sense?

11-22-2009, 03:18 AM	#283
Stubby Super Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madison, WI USA Posts: 483	Oldlady: Not quite there, My understanding is this The USPSl will not ship any tobacco products except cigars (I believe USPS will ship cigars but I'm not sure about that one). The only way to ship tobacco will be through a private carrier (UPS, FedEx, etc). Taxes are paid at the point of sale, not when the package is received, and yes age verification when the package is received. __________________ Pay Attention

11-22-2009, 03:51 AM	#286
Slickstick USA Supplier Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 805	She's either in the hospital, or dead. She attempted to make this stuff herself from store bought tobacco, so she claims. I would assume something bad happened because I haven't seen her on the other forums either. (on my sig) Which I believe she may be the founder of. __________________ http://www.vaporheads.net

11-22-2009, 02:18 PM	#289
Slickstick USA Supplier Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 805	its all good we will just label them differently if we have to. The smaller companies will stay in business. __________________ http://www.vaporheads.net

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11-22-2009, 02:41 PM	#290
TropicalBob PV Master ECF Veteran Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Charlotte, FL USA Posts: 5,465	JustJulie, I've read the same thing. This is a move to stop interstate delivery of cigarettes and smokeless tobacco to individuals. Businesses that sell must register and keep records -- and collect taxes. They can get delivery. But the postal service will be forbidden to deliver to a private residence, and all other carriers (FedEX, DHL, UPS, etc) have agreed not to deliver tobacco products. It is NOT "all good." And it would take a fool to defy a regulation like this and face the wrath of an angry federal agency that can levy a huge fine for a single violation. No, this is not all good at all. Yvilla, might there be fine print somewhere about delivery of nicotine products? I haven't read it all, but how hard would it be to declare e-liquid a hazardous substance that cannot be mailed because it contains a toxic poison and addictive substance? I agree e-cigs are not named in the PACT act. But I can't see the government just looking the other way if e-cigs are overlooked.