E-Cigs will never be Legal - Page 2 - E-Cigarette Forum

Sevenchan · 09-20-2009, 01:57 PM

All this stuff about corporatism is absolutely true. I just read "Methland" by Nick Reding which I can highly recommend, an expose of how Big Agro effectively caused the meth plague in Middle America. And for us vapers, the icing of irony on the cake is:

Big Business is still EXTREMELY inefficient.

Just think: Nicotine is as addictive as meth. Yet it does not stop people from living productive lives. Smoking kills, nicotine does not. E-cigs should be Big Business's ideal product. They should be pushing them hard at the whole population to get more people hooked, forcing us to pay through the nose for safe PVs manufactured by Pfizer and taxing us to hell and back for safe juice manufactured by Altria or RJ Reynolds. That way, Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, and Washington Inc. would all get a slice of a pie that would be bigger than ever before, as more people would vape than ever smoked, without the health concerns. If US corporatism was efficient, that's what they'd do!

Unfortunately (?) this is an INEFFICIENT corporatist state, so vapers are going to be crushed between the rock of the status quo and the hard place of anti-smoker media hysteria.

JMO

Edit: Yeah, what Dragonpuff said in his/her third point

dragonpuff · 09-20-2009, 06:37 PM

Honestly, if either big pharma or big tobacco get ahold of these for development, i would MUCH rather it be big tobacco, because then we can be certain of two things:
1) They will NOT reduce nic levels to be below any reasonable efficacy; they do want to keep us hooked, right?
2) They will make sure that these are affordable so people actually BUY them; whereas if big pharma sells them as a medical device, then (as pugzley pointed out) they will be initially available by prescription only for some ungodly price, and people will still buy them because they are so desperate to quit smoking.

I really don't believe the entire medical industry is intent on keeping us sick for profit (as most people who work in the medical field do so because they genuinely care), but i am certain big pharma is, and who do you think is holding the puppet strings on the entire medical industry?

My major point in my above post is that i simply don't think any of these organizations are beholden to cigarettes alone for profit; they have many other ways to make their money. They are simply taking advantage of what's already there (especially big pharma).

As for the FDA? From what i can see, they have no authority to make law, only to enforce it. They are just a gateway that allows only approved drugs on the market. The only way to change the way the FDA conducts its business is to change the laws that bind it.

That said, under current law, all testing for a new drug is to be paid for by the company who produces it, and there are no laws governing oversight of the testing process. The result? By the time the FDA sees the final results of the study, all incriminating parts are taken out so that all the FDA sees is a glimmering ray of sunshine instead of all the nasties (i know this from research i've done into how studies were conducted on antidepressants). ''Remember, if you really want to quit smoking, chantix is both successful and safe, according to the FDA.'' Truthfully speaking, the FDA only sees what's right in front of it and makes a decision on that basis. It's just a gateway. They have no legal jurisdiction other than that which has been handed to them, they cannot make their own rules.

Great world we live in, right? I sure hope the times are a'changin'.

chayce · 09-21-2009, 02:15 PM

The more I wrap my head around it, the more I realize that E-cigs will never be legal. This is because Alcohol and Tobacco would not be legal today if they were not grandfathered in place. Imagine the FDA approving any recreational drug today. We have given them the right to control anything that can be classified as a drug, so now we face the consequences.

premiume · 09-21-2009, 02:22 PM

Electronic cigarette is give lot of benifits, people are save their money by e-cigs.
And no side effect as compare to real cigarette and you can see that there are lot of flaverous are available for smokeres and low nicotine leval so i think is today not legal but after the day of success its approve.

Snarkyone · 09-21-2009, 02:44 PM

Any rational adult knows to follow the money whenever there's some controversial product like this. Who is making it, and sometimes like in the case of E-Cigs who ISN'T MAKING it are the ones to look out for. Why you ask? Just as it has been stated before, America is about business interest merging with government, and don't think for a minute that the government doesn't care about having money. If you don't think this system is broken not just in America but on a global scale then you are either foolish or deluding yourself.

Nestran · 09-21-2009, 06:56 PM

Don't forget that there is a player that should be on our side, health care insurers. If you stop smoking, you reduce illness which increases profit for health care insurers. You don't pay for health care coverage based on how frequently you need it so the less you use it, the more they make.

Now, oddly, even the health care insurers are taking a stance against the ecig, mine did anyway. they are ok with the pharma products though.

Wait and see what amazing new product hits the shelves from pharma...

Nestran

Pav · 09-21-2009, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chayce

The more I wrap my head around it, the more I realize that E-cigs will never be legal. This is because Alcohol and Tobacco would not be legal today if they were not grandfathered in place. Imagine the FDA approving any recreational drug today. We have given them the right to control anything that can be classified as a drug, so now we face the consequences.

Maybe, maybe not. ......... is slowly moving towards legalization in the US.

And Alcohol was illegal for awhile until they realized you just weren't going to keep people from drinking and prohibition was a joke.

frightline · 09-22-2009, 01:06 PM

That's the most realistic evaluation of this whole thing.
Pretty much on track with what i was thinking.So with this being said,it sounds like smoking analogs is better for the economy...F#$ the economy then!!!
Nice job on approving CHANTIX!!
It is really easy to quit with chantix because it causes you to commit suicide.And we all know how hard it is to smoke...WHEN YOU ARE DEAD!!!
I am almost on the 6 month mark being 100% analog free!!
I am not going to quit vaping!I am not going back to analogs!
We are at an impass!
Remember this quote"People should not be afraid of their government,The government should be afraid of their people!!"--"V"

suparstar11 · 09-22-2009, 01:58 PM

seems like some deep corruption to to me, thats sad

..

Devious · 09-22-2009, 02:43 PM

So when they legalize marijauna, how long do you think it will be until we can buy ......... e-juice in the US? }:-)

Reality is for those that lack imagination...

09-20-2009, 06:37 PM	#12
dragonpuff Super Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 356	Honestly, if either big pharma or big tobacco get ahold of these for development, i would MUCH rather it be big tobacco, because then we can be certain of two things: 1) They will NOT reduce nic levels to be below any reasonable efficacy; they do want to keep us hooked, right? 2) They will make sure that these are affordable so people actually BUY them; whereas if big pharma sells them as a medical device, then (as pugzley pointed out) they will be initially available by prescription only for some ungodly price, and people will still buy them because they are so desperate to quit smoking. I really don't believe the entire medical industry is intent on keeping us sick for profit (as most people who work in the medical field do so because they genuinely care), but i am certain big pharma is, and who do you think is holding the puppet strings on the entire medical industry? My major point in my above post is that i simply don't think any of these organizations are beholden to cigarettes alone for profit; they have many other ways to make their money. They are simply taking advantage of what's already there (especially big pharma). As for the FDA? From what i can see, they have no authority to make law, only to enforce it. They are just a gateway that allows only approved drugs on the market. The only way to change the way the FDA conducts its business is to change the laws that bind it. That said, under current law, all testing for a new drug is to be paid for by the company who produces it, and there are no laws governing oversight of the testing process. The result? By the time the FDA sees the final results of the study, all incriminating parts are taken out so that all the FDA sees is a glimmering ray of sunshine instead of all the nasties (i know this from research i've done into how studies were conducted on antidepressants). ''Remember, if you really want to quit smoking, chantix is both successful and safe, according to the FDA.'' Truthfully speaking, the FDA only sees what's right in front of it and makes a decision on that basis. It's just a gateway. They have no legal jurisdiction other than that which has been handed to them, they cannot make their own rules. Great world we live in, right? I sure hope the times are a'changin'. __________________ Last edited by dragonpuff; 09-20-2009 at 06:38 PM. Reason: typo

09-21-2009, 02:44 PM	#15
Snarkyone Super Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Your mom said not to say... Posts: 822 Tweet this post!	Any rational adult knows to follow the money whenever there's some controversial product like this. Who is making it, and sometimes like in the case of E-Cigs who ISN'T MAKING it are the ones to look out for. Why you ask? Just as it has been stated before, America is about business interest merging with government, and don't think for a minute that the government doesn't care about having money. If you don't think this system is broken not just in America but on a global scale then you are either foolish or deluding yourself. __________________ Retired: Dragon, 510, Magnum Mod, KR808D-1. In Use: GreenCig, JuiceBox.

09-22-2009, 01:06 PM	#18
frightline Full Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 34	Gemini has it! That's the most realistic evaluation of this whole thing. Pretty much on track with what i was thinking.So with this being said,it sounds like smoking analogs is better for the economy...F#$ the economy then!!! Nice job on approving CHANTIX!! It is really easy to quit with chantix because it causes you to commit suicide.And we all know how hard it is to smoke...WHEN YOU ARE DEAD!!! I am almost on the 6 month mark being 100% analog free!! I am not going to quit vaping!I am not going back to analogs! We are at an impass! Remember this quote"People should not be afraid of their government,The government should be afraid of their people!!"--"V" __________________ "First the habit....Next the addiction!"

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09-20-2009, 01:57 PM	#11
Sevenchan Full Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tokyo Posts: 84	All this stuff about corporatism is absolutely true. I just read "Methland" by Nick Reding which I can highly recommend, an expose of how Big Agro effectively caused the meth plague in Middle America. And for us vapers, the icing of irony on the cake is: Big Business is still EXTREMELY inefficient. Just think: Nicotine is as addictive as meth. Yet it does not stop people from living productive lives. Smoking kills, nicotine does not. E-cigs should be Big Business's ideal product. They should be pushing them hard at the whole population to get more people hooked, forcing us to pay through the nose for safe PVs manufactured by Pfizer and taxing us to hell and back for safe juice manufactured by Altria or RJ Reynolds. That way, Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, and Washington Inc. would all get a slice of a pie that would be bigger than ever before, as more people would vape than ever smoked, without the health concerns. If US corporatism was efficient, that's what they'd do! Unfortunately (?) this is an INEFFICIENT corporatist state, so vapers are going to be crushed between the rock of the status quo and the hard place of anti-smoker media hysteria. JMO Edit: Yeah, what Dragonpuff said in his/her third point

09-21-2009, 02:15 PM	#13
chayce Full Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 32	The more I wrap my head around it, the more I realize that E-cigs will never be legal. This is because Alcohol and Tobacco would not be legal today if they were not grandfathered in place. Imagine the FDA approving any recreational drug today. We have given them the right to control anything that can be classified as a drug, so now we face the consequences.

09-21-2009, 02:22 PM	#14
premiume Banned Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 7	Electronic cigarette is give lot of benifits, people are save their money by e-cigs. And no side effect as compare to real cigarette and you can see that there are lot of flaverous are available for smokeres and low nicotine leval so i think is today not legal but after the day of success its approve.

09-21-2009, 06:56 PM	#16
Nestran Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 247	Don't forget that there is a player that should be on our side, health care insurers. If you stop smoking, you reduce illness which increases profit for health care insurers. You don't pay for health care coverage based on how frequently you need it so the less you use it, the more they make. Now, oddly, even the health care insurers are taking a stance against the ecig, mine did anyway. they are ok with the pharma products though. Wait and see what amazing new product hits the shelves from pharma... Nestran

09-22-2009, 01:58 PM	#19
suparstar11 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 6	seems like some deep corruption to to me, thats sad ..

09-22-2009, 02:43 PM	#20
Devious Full Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Baird, Texas Posts: 43	So when they legalize marijauna, how long do you think it will be until we can buy ......... e-juice in the US? }:-) Reality is for those that lack imagination...