UK regulation of eliquid

[ApOsTle51]

going by viscosity alone i would say e-liquid weighs alot more than water per ml.
Good luck to you Ja, I'm sure you can count on your customers for support. Let's hope you reap the benefits for all your actions..well done.

[TropicalBob]

You've been ahead of everyone else in beginning to implement needed changes, yet you're the one being picked on. A fear among many here, I bet, is that you're merely the goat brought out for slaughter. If you go down, the other providers cannot feel secure.

The days of high-nic fluid seem to be numbered. My own fear is that America's FDA will never approve liquid with nicotine content higher than the basic NRT stuff from Big Pharma: about 4mg per piece. That will not satisfy many hardcore nic addicts, anymore than a tablet of Nicorette takes away all craving! But it is poison we're talking about here, and the regulatory intrusion is understandable, if undesirable.

Let's hope you can meet standards and continue to supply the e-smoking community.

[notsmellyanymore]

going by viscosity alone i would say e-liquid weighs alot more than water per ml.
Good luck to you Ja, I'm sure you can count on your customers for support. Let's hope you reap the benefits for all your actions..well done.

The missus would have to test the SG for the correct answer, I'm not sure her employer would be too thrilled if he caught her testing TW Cherry instead of 10w/40 Semi-synthetic! :-)

The results wouldn't be that different anyway...

[notsmellyanymore]

ugh, thanks for posting that, but how about a summary that's a bit easier to read?

so 36mg Wicked = 36mg/ml = 36/1000 = 3.6% then? Which would NOT fall under the UK poisons act, it would appear.

No...

There are 1000 milligrams (water) in 1 millilitre (water).

30ml of 24mg liquid = nicotine weight in solution of 0.08%

The sum being....
[ 24 / 30 = 0.8] [x 100 = 80%] [ /1000 = 0.08% ] as milligrams per millilitre.


30ml of 36mg liquid = nicotine weight in solution of 0.12%
[ 36 / 30 = 1.2] [x 100 = 120%] [/1000 = 0.12 ] mg per ml.

[Shamus101]

This is the reason I originaly decided to buy from you Jason.

You dont cut corners and make me feel safe about vaping what you're selling.

I look forward to placing an order as soon as this is resolved.

Keep up the good work mate.

Shamus

[f_frederickskitty]

I don't think there are any worries re the poisons act, but still a good idea to childproof the containers.

The highest nic e-juice has 36 MILIgrams (36/1000 = 0.036 g) per ml and 1 g of propylene glycol (d = 1.036) is 0.965 ml. That's only 3.6% w/w, worst case scenario 3.7% w/v. The value for glycerine w/w is the same but w/v would be 4.5% (glycerine d=1.261). The 7.5% w/w level would be a stonking 75mg juice!

w/w - weight for weight
w/v - weight for volume

[Bertrand]

Thanks Fred. I don't think anyone knows exactly what "36mg" etc. means, though. It's sometimes thought to mean 3.6%w/w, and sometimes 3.6%w/v. It would be good if real measurements were put on the bottles instead of "36mg", which is clearly wrong.

The quote from yo-han earlier suggested that the factory actually puts real measurements on them, eg. "11mg/g", so we should probably expect they do mean 3.6%w/w by "36mg".

It seems fair enough to me that regulators would expect something accurate on a bottle of potentially lethal poison.

[Natty Bo]

No...

There are 1000 milligrams (water) in 1 millilitre (water).

30ml of 24mg liquid = nicotine weight in solution of 0.08%

The sum being....
[ 24 / 30 = 0.8] [x 100 = 80%] [ /1000 = 0.08% ] as milligrams per millilitre.


30ml of 36mg liquid = nicotine weight in solution of 0.12%
[ 36 / 30 = 1.2] [x 100 = 120%] [/1000 = 0.12 ] mg per ml.

Correct, but not unapplicable to the UK Poisons Act.

If I'm correct in thinking, forgive me my chemistry is ropey, the "weight in weight" (e.g. nicotine to solvent base to make solution) percentage is not by volume but rather by actual physical weight. It is the weight of the nicotine relative to the weight of the solvent base (flavouring, PG, etc) it is diluted into irrespective of the final volume of the solution.

For example (and these are made up numbers to help explain it): say we have a 32mg strength nic juice in a 30ml bottle. The nicotine itself weighs 5mg and the solvent it is diluted to weighs 95mg, then the weight in weight percentage is calculated as being 5%. I believe they calculate the weight as a dry weight rather than wet. Thus the more nicotine the higher the weight relative to the solvent's weight.

Therefore without a lab no one can accurately estimate the weight in weight of any nic juice.

Good on Pillbox being on the ball. It'll mean safer vaping for all (UK-wise) and a step closer to being fully legit. Unless the facists...sorry...Government says otherwise.

[pillbox38]

Natty is correct, its down to the weight of the nicotine in a given soloution, under 7.5% it then can be sold but only in a CHIP compliant way. If i did not suspend sales i would have been issued with a suspension notice, i had been asked to stop selling cartridges. I refused stating i disagreed with the reports i was presented however it is nothing more than a stalling tactic. Luckily i had all information at hand regarding where i could buy what i needed to at least make my kits as required, so a labelling machine and 5000 tactile warnings arrive today and childproof(uk standard with certification) bottles that take 5 carts arrive monday.

All relevant warnings and agreed warnings that T/S want i have , just a little grief repackaging, but at least every kit i sell cannot be touched..

Once i nail down from a ukas accredited lab the exact levels of fluid that sit under the poisons act, i can rebottle in appropriate containers, label as required and start selling with no fear of at least T/S. Unless off course the goal posts get moved again

[Duncan]

I'm not allowed to post a URL until I've made 15 posts, so I'll reproduce here the full article dated today in the Highland News. It appears to be at the heart of this problem:-

UNLICENSED nicotine refills designed to help people quit smoking but which could be fatal to young children were being sold from a stall at the Eastgate Centre in Inverness.

advertising
Following investigations by the Highland Council Trading Standards Department into the safety of the refill cartridges for an "Electronic Cigarette" the products have now been withdrawn from the market.

The refills, which are sold under the "Mini Cigarette" or "E, Cig" brand are sold with the product.

Gordon Robb, Principal Trading Standards Officer with Highland Council said the refills were being sold from the "All Points North" stall in the Upper mall of the the Eastgate Centre.

"The owner was selling them from his stall in the market and they have now been withdrawn," said Mr Robb.

"We are dealing mainly with the producers of the refills in the Blackburn area."

Mr Robb said: "The refills contain a toxic nicotine solution and I was surprised when I got a response from the Scottish Poisons Information Bureau what a small amount of nictoine could be fatal to a child if swallowed.

"Despite people’s general recognition of nicotine as being something that is contained in cigarettes and other tobacco products, nicotine’s toxicity to humans is not widely understood by the public.

"On the analysis we had carried out, a single refill cartridge, which is small enough to be easily swallowed if found by a child, was found to contain many times more nicotine than would be found in a cigarette.

"The refill cartridge packaging bore none of the warnings, tactile labelling or child resistance that is legally required for such a toxic substance, making the safety risk that these products represent all the higher."

"Our general familiarity with the many reputable nicotine replacement therapy products on sale should not lead the public to make the mistake of comparing these with the dangerous products we are now highlighting. The well known brands of products designed to help smokers to give up the habit are all licensed by the MHRA (Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency) as being safe to use. Neither the electronic cigarette nor the refill cartridges involved here however are licensed in this way and have therefore not been subjected to the same degree of formal safety assessment before being placed on the market."

During their investigations Trading Standards have identified that many more clones of this type of product are available on the internet and elsewhere in the marketplace and they have alerted their colleagues in the UK and in other European Member States, via what is known as the RAPEX (EU rapid alert system for all dangerous consumer products) system.

Mr Robb said it remained unclear whether the other products available present the same degree of safety risk as has been found in this case.

But there have been calls from elsewhere in Europe for such products in general to be more tightly regulated.

The retailer and producer of the products involved that have been on sale in Inverness and via the internet has agreed to immediately withdraw the products from sale pending the putting in place of appropriate packaging and warnings.

Consumers are advised to immediately remove the refills to a place out of the reach of children