Iran: Nukes, good; e-cigs, bad

[Kate]

Well I'm signing out of this one now Leaford, it's been nice chatting but I don't think we agree on what 'defense' means never mind 'offence'.

[trog100]

An eye for an eye interestingly was a call for moderation.. not an extreme form of retribution as most see it..

the alternative being a wholes bunch of the enemies eyes for just one of yours..

a personal story.. a while back three teenagers walled into my old mother in laws houses.. they calmly said hello grandma we have come to pay u a visit as they robbed her..

they were able to do this for one simple reason.. she was defenseless and unable to stop them....

a colt forty five magnum in her draws might well have deterred the little f-ckers..

the world as it is..

trog

and leaford... u are an educated man.. a shame its an american educated one.. what a waste... he he he

ps 2.. and kate i recon the IRA in ireland would probably have knee capped such individuals.. at times some very odd people keep the peace..

[Frankie]

Yeah, that's how it works. When enough people gather, weapons just appear. Sure.

Well, that's how it works, ironical or not. In Rumania there was no personal ownership allowed. Commie regime, brutal Securitate secret police, and so on. Enough people gathered, guns appeared. Not the guns that were privately owned before, of course. Taken from the dictator´s stockpiles and troops (sometimes with the troops, too). A short clash with the official forces ensued and their dictator was summarily shot together with his wife and dog.

When pyramid schemes ruined Albanian economy a decade or so ago, the first thing people did was storm army arsenals. Do you think 50,000 ppl cannot beat those 7 guards on duty to death with wet bath towels if they wish so? Real force is in numbers, not weapons themselves. The official troops consist of human beings, after all. If a nation rebels against your employer, many do not have the guts to shoot hundreds of their neighbours and just run or go to the other side.

Albania is not the nicest country to live in now...
The same goes for Bosnia...
Afghanistan...
Somalia...

All with totally or almost unregulated firearms ownership.

Good people with guns save lives every day. They're called police

When I was young I was taught police in England do not carry guns. Maybe it changed

[ApOsTle51]

well i never took leaford for ' pro-gun ' he seemed more sensible than that but without being offensive , he is an American and has grown up in the culture that thrives there now so knows no better. 'from my cold dead hands' ...probably one day
calling guns a "hunk of metal" i find an strange view. True they are metal but they are designed and made for one purpose and that is to kill. no matter how nicely you dress it that's all guns are for.

And i'm all for the right to defend our homes and loved ones but not for the right to bare arms.

and Frankie please take that picture down . Kids and guns on a uk website is not what we need. We have specialized armed divisions of the police SO15 etc , but the bobby on the beat are still unarmed.

[leaford]

Well I'm signing out of this one now Leaford, it's been nice chatting but I don't think we agree on what 'defense' means never mind 'offence'.

OK, fine then, take your parting shot and leave. Now, I look churlish if I want to respond to it!

Fine, then, here's my "churlish" reply:

If you're implying that guns can't be used as defense, that holding off an attacker with your gun, or even shooting someone trying to kill you or another, ISN'T defense, then I would like to know how you define a defense.

[Frankie]

a personal story.. a while back three teenagers walled into my old mother in laws houses.. they calmly said hello grandma we have come to pay u a visit as they robbed her..

they were able to do this for one simple reason.. she was defenseless and unable to stop them....

a colt forty five magnum in her draws might well have deterred the little f-ckers..

In theory, yes. In reality... Would your mother in law carry the gun around her house every day for decades waiting for that precise moment of glory? Would she regularly shoot it, clean, oil, reload and keep it in working condition? Or she would kindly ask them to wait for her to get the weapon from up/down/ stairs?

[PeteMcArthur]

Did I say I felt threatened? I don't feel that my religious rights are threatened, but I am glad my Constitution enshrines that freedom. Neither do I feel so threatened that I need to own a gun, but I am glad to live in a country where I can.

Leaford, can I tell you a story? Twenty years ago I was quite involved in target shooting, nothing heavy calibre, just paper punching, at the time completely legal. My wife and I were moving house and we put an offer in on a house, We lost, no big deal, bought another house instead.

A few years later I was sitting in the newsroom of my employer at the time, trying to fix their computer systems, I spent the whole day looking with increasing horror at the rushes coming in. On that day Thomas Hamilton shot dead 16 primary kids and their teacher.

If we had got that house earlier, my son would have been in that classroom. The day after is happened I handed my Firearms Certificate and guns in. I've never touched a gun again.

Guns DO KILL PEOPLE. end of story. If you want to justify the personal holding of firearms, please try, but shooting the British is no longer a valid reason.

[Kate]

... and kate i recon the IRA in ireland would probably have knee capped such individuals.. at times some very odd people keep the peace..

Sorry to hear about your mother in law Trog, that is indeed sad.

You're right about the IRA, they dispensed their own justice. No trial by jury, no appeal.

I know a lad who received an apology from them for killing his father as an informer 'by mistake'.

[leaford]

In theory, yes. In reality... Would your mother in law carry the gun around her house every day for decades waiting for that precise moment of glory? Would she regularly shoot it, clean, oil, reload and keep it in working condition? Or she would kindly ask them to wait for her to get the weapon from up/down/ stairs?

Doesn't matter. Point is, if she had a gun, she might have been able to defend herself, without one, she couldn't.

[ApOsTle51]

well i dont know that many 8 year olds and teachers carry guns as standard classroom equiptment.

You just gotta look at American campus shootings, ( take your pick , there's plenty to choose from ) to see Guns serve no purpose in civilian hands.