Australian ban; Egar illegal

[TropicalBob]

I think Cucurucho's suggestion on working with the anti-smoking movement is an excellent idea -- far better than acting like a four-year-old throwing a public tantrum because he can't get his way, as some seem to suggest in protest.

People are asking "what can I do? I'm only one person without power." True, and we do NOT have the numbers to fight the 4 out of 5 people who are not nicotine addicts and could easily oppose our practice. We need to act as individuals to educate health organization members.

If you know a member of, say, the Cancer Society, or ASH, or Tobacco-Free Kids, see if you can talk with them and demo your electric nicotine inhaler. Do not call it an e-cigarette. Do not say it uses "juice". It's really a sophisticated version of the nicotine inhaler approved for smoking cessation. Our devices are awaiting studies now that have, so far, shown it is safe. Tests in Malaysia show it is effective.

Make your case with a smile. Even in private, stop insulting those who will oppose us by cursing them, by belittling science, by thinking the whole thing is some kind of conspiracy to deny you the good thing you have discovered and now enjoy. Such negativity will only harden public opinion against us.

This is a practice to deliver a hard-core drug to addicts. That's its reason to exist. It's not for vaping VG. If someone wants to do that, fine. But that's not what these devices are designed for (see patents, etc). These are electric nicotine inhalers. Without nicotine, they are only pricey Chinese toys to blow vapor rings. How many would be sold on that basis?

Try to win over a potential opponent who likely has never seen what we call an e-cig, has never talked with anyone who uses one. Let that informed person go back to the organization and explain the new devices.

It's the only approach likely to work, Cucurucho. Cheers for having the nerve to suggest it.

[GabbyD]

The antis won't like it if it looks like a cig, in any way resembles a cig and you blow out vapors that look like smoke. Remember, they want to (in the U.S.) have movies rated R if somebody is smoking. Fact is, looks like a cig and delivers nicotine and still might look cool to kids and get them hooked. The only plus we have, as far as they'd be concerned, is that we aren't killing all of them with second hand smoke. But I really don't see the anti groups getting on board with this device. And maybe it is great as a device for quitting smoking, but I haven't seen anything yet that even hints at it as being a great device for getting off nicotine. If anything, I see lots of discussions here (and ones we are having in my home as well) about worries of increasing nicotine tolerence and addiction. Throw in the flavors and the antis definitely won't get on board, IMO.

[TropicalBob]

Don't you get the feeling that if they DON'T get on board, our practice is doomed? It will be banned. We either win them over or we lose what we love.

[riddle80]

I posted this earlier in the thread, but since the topic is being brought up I'm going to quote it...

Geeze, this is just ridiculous. I for one don't want to stand back and watch this happen. I think since this is the largest community of e-vapers (sp? we need something different than e-smokers) we should come up with a way to collectively speak to government, get testing, and inform consumers of the FACTS. I was thinking a new website? Righttovape.com is available . This forum is great to learn and share, but we need something to speak out and educate the masses. Perhaps the 2 sites could go hand in hand as the top sources for e-cigs. Do you suppose any anti-smoking groups would jump on board (i.e. abovetheinfluence.com)? Any thoughts?

With the help of fellow member Lithium and everyone here I might be helping start this website which will be simple and facts only to help educate (I'll start a new topic on this later because I'll be needing some help with content and ideas). That's really aside from the point though .

Other than that, I really think we could get some huge support from anti-smoking organizations. I do think they're sympathetic to the fact that we're addicts and they, unlike government and big tobacco, are in it for health. Or that's what appears to be the motive.

[SIN]

...... addicts are prescribed Methadone. So why can't Nicotine addicts be prescribed a pharmaceutical grade liquid nicotine that can be used in a personal vaporiser?

[TropicalBob]

One word: studies. Clinical trials have to be completed on methodology, safety and efficacy before a product can be marketed that way. Who will pay for those? If Big Pharmaceutical wants to get involved, it has the means. But it will be us who will pay in the long run for their products.

Still, the present unregulated environment is an open invitation to disaster. We really don't know what we're doing. No health agency would approve our practice without regulatory safeguards in place. So we have a long way to go to become an accepted practice .. and very little time, given what went down in Australia and how fast it happened.

Riddle80: Regretfully, I don't think organization will accomplish anything. Not worth the effort. Only someone of Dr. Laugesen's stature can argue on behalf of battery-powered nicotine inhalers.

[GabbyD]

Don't you get the feeling that if they DON'T get on board, our practice is doomed? It will be banned. We either win them over or we lose what we love.

Well, it's hard to say. They haven't succeeded in getting cigarettes banned. Maybe what we need is to have big tobacco on board - sorta tongue and cheek with that but fully admitting that's the way it seems to work best. If we had big money, lobbyists and tax revenues on our side, we'd be fine. Grrrrrr. How to achieve it without any of that? I just don't see it happening. I see it a lot like the gun issue. I'm a gun owner. I don't have a prayer of convincing a gun-grabber that I have every right to it. They simply do.not.care one bit about my views on it. I have anti-smokers in my family. I mean, the type who bitched to every restaurant manager before we had laws banning it here. The type who had editorials published and who wrote congressmen regularly. Would they get on board? No way. Smokers are ignorant addicts and worthless human beings. That's why I was a closet smoker for years. I don't think that attitude is rare among the antis. Those who I know wouldn't support anything that feeds the habit, clean and smelling like Lysol or not. Maybe it depends on how one became an anti, I don't know, but I get the feeling some of them view smokers the way I view a crack addict. Like a total loser.

With the help of fellow member Lithium and everyone here I might be helping start this website which will be simple and facts only to help educate (I'll start a new topic on this later because I'll be needing some help with content and ideas). That's really aside from the point though .

Other than that, I really think we could get some huge support from anti-smoking organizations. I do think they're sympathetic to the fact that we're addicts and they, unlike government and big tobacco, are in it for health. Or that's what appears to be the motive.

I'm not sure we have a very convincing argument that vaping is healthy with the nicotine factored in there though. That's the thing. We've switched delivery methods and perhaps it's healthier but we're still addicted to a substance that I think most would assume is unhealthy. And if we're wanting to do it in public with little devices that look like cigarettes, in front of children who might think it looks cool, we're doomed. I've seen plenty of comments here from adults saying they thought the e-cig sounded/looked/seemed "cool." But, that aside,I hope you are vocal about your needs on this project here because I would love to help. I read your post earlier but I just have no idea how to go about it. If you guys get some basic ideas going and want input, I'd be all over that, so please keep this community posted!

I don't mean to sound like Debbie Downer with my thoughts on the anti crowd, but having "hidden" from a few for years now, I just have a viewpoint based on my personal experience. However, I say we go for whoever, everyone, everywhere. We sure can't lose by trying! I think any idea is a good one at this point.

[Lithium1330]

Vaping and smoking are not very different things. Both involve a decision to ingest nicotine in any way we can.

And I respect your point of view, all i know is that i FEEL smoke of any kind, not just from tobacco is wrong, my body tell me this, so i don't want smoke everywhere specially where is children aroud.

For me are two very different things, maybe due to my type of adiction, i can be fine just vaping without nicotine, non regular cigarette can give that.

I've only suggested to read exactly what FORCES is.

This product already exists. It is called nicotine inhaler, clinically tested, completety safe, not made in China at all and sold in any good pharmacy for some $45. Good luck.

Yeah, I know, but it taste like ship!

Riddle80: Regretfully, I don't think organization will accomplish anything. Not worth the effort. Only someone of Dr. Laugesen's stature can argue on behalf of battery-powered nicotine inhalers.

Better doing this than nothing or step aside, all we want is to "centralize" info about studies and sources of information.

Using this devices without nicotine is valid, they give to regular smokers something that other devices can't, the visual and motion feeling of smoking, so i know this gonna be controvertial but name this as a "electronic nicotine inhaler" isn't accurate either, if it can be used without nicotine, beside using the word "nicotine" will freak out a lot of people, just like name it "e-cigarette" was a bad idea, a lot of user can use it in combination with clinically tested nicotine delivery systems such as patches, gum or nicotine inhalers please read: Fake Cigarette E-Z Quit Inc's Smokeless Artificial Cigarette

When you inhale through an ArtificialCigarette, you replicate the actions of smoking, but without inhaling deadly smoke. The cartridge releases a mint-like flavor which refreshes your mouth and makes your lungs register the inhalation. Reaching for an ArtificialCigarette is as easy as reaching for a cigarette. Holding and handling an ArtificialCigarette keeps your hands occupied as if with a cigarette. This helps reduce your feelings of deprivation.

I'm not sure we have a very convincing argument that vaping is healthy with the nicotine factored in there though. That's the thing. We've switched delivery methods and perhaps it's healthier but we're still addicted to a substance that I think most would assume is unhealthy. And if we're wanting to do it in public with little devices that look like cigarettes, in front of children who might think it looks cool, we're doomed. I've seen plenty of comments here from adults saying they thought the e-cig sounded/looked/seemed "cool." But, that aside,I hope you are vocal about your needs on this project here because I would love to help. I read your post earlier but I just have no idea how to go about it. If you guys get some basic ideas going and want input, I'd be all over that, so please keep this community posted!

I don't mean to sound like Debbie Downer with my thoughts on the anti crowd, but having "hidden" from a few for years now, I just have a viewpoint based on my personal experience. However, I say we go for whoever, everyone, everywhere. We sure can't lose by trying! I think any idea is a good one at this point.

You are right, the cool toy-cigarette look, name and misinformation about this devices is causing the bans, the goverments don't want us to "smoke" anything, because it could be attractive again, we need a totally diferent scope on this, is very probable that big tobacco or big pharma companies jump into the business but we as user or potential users need to be well informed on any aspect of this and for that we need pro-active people like you, riddle80 can explain you more than i do due to my really limited english.

[Lurker]

The root of this has little to do with e-inhaling-devices. It's about liberty vs. safety. What is the Ben Franklin quote? Those who trade liberty for safety deserve neither. Or something like that. Unite against all government infringement on personal choice. That would be a much larger group IMO. Not sure how to do that, but divided into specific cases makes for small groups of pissed off people. Man this sucks. Slippery slope for sure

[lucisac]

TO: 'daniel.andrews@parliament.vic.gov.au'

I was quite shocked to read that you had made the decision to ban the “electronic cigarette” in Victoria. On the 1st of October this year I begun using the Electronic Cigarette and since then had ceased smoking traditional cigarettes. Since this time I have felt so much better in countless ways. I have regained my sense of smell; I can breathe much more easily; I no longer stink around others, or cough terribly in the mornings, and most importantly, I am not harming others with second hand smoke.

I am confused as to why you would ban use of this device when tobacco cigarettes are still available to be purchased. A tobacco cigarette contains over 4000 chemicals, 16 of which are carcinogens of which are inhaled by many smokers every day. Not only are they a deadly product to the smoker, but more importantly, passive smokers like you and me and even our own children are subject to this danger everyday! These cigarettes are also a danger to the environment, littered on the road, parks, stuck in drains, you name it you look anywhere and there is a cigarette butt lying somewhere, it’s disgusting, and it wasn’t until I switched the Electronic Cigarette that I realised what was happening not just to me, but to others.

I am no professional when it comes to the law, but I strongly beg you to reconsider the ban. You have taken away my freedom to switch to a healthier lifestyle and the chance for Victoria to be a cleaner and healthier place to live. I was really proud to say goodbye to tobacco and now I am forced to smoke real cigarettes again as other nicotine replacement therapies have not worked for me. This upsets me so much because now not only will I be subject to cancer in due time, but also others around me will be subject to the risks caused by second hand smoke.

Distressed but not surprised
lucisac (real name was here)
Point Cook - Victoria