Australian ban; Egar illegal

[cucurucho]

I've tried looking, but none of the online legal resources seem to be up to date.

[Lithium1330]

unless they ban paraphernalia they cant really ban the device itself.. only the drug..

trog

Believe me they can, some goverments and the anti-smokers don't want a device that looks cool and reminds a lot a regular cigarette, this is because this devices could be make "smoking" attractive again, in my country they'd ban everything that reminds you a cigarette (the nicotine is not banned) perhaps here we can use this devices but we can't import, produce, sell or promote them.

[solution42]

They can ban paraphernalia, they did it here with pipes and bongs the display purposes only loophole was shut down.

[Rockbassray]

"and the ban was a result of political pressure and the Government's inability to collect the tobacco tax from their sale."

Enough Said America will be soon in line to ban them for the same exact reason.. i really hope that isnt true..

[Rockbassray]

and if i read that incorrectly TB the post says they are banning the Nicotine not the device itself. and how exactly can the ban the nicotine without opening every single bottle or cart to test it?

[nqhqhz]

"and the ban was a result of political pressure and the Government's inability to collect the tobacco tax from their sale."

Enough Said America will be soon in line to ban them for the same exact reason.. i really hope that isnt true..

Can I play devil's advocate here and say that the apparent reason why they were banned is because of the tiny containers of deadly poison? I don't know if that politician meant e-smoking is dangerous because of the nicotine, or if he meant that, for instance, consumers with no chemical experience ordering half litre bottles of 38mg/ml nicotine (enough to kill 250 people!) as in a thread elsewhere on this forum is dangerous?

Obviously I don't support banning anything and I think this is a stupid move, but one of the hardest parts IMO will be convincing people that the nicotine can be distributed safely. Simply childproofing the bottles won't be enough; they can be broken by children, ordered by suicidal people, or by 'terrists'.

I stand to be corrected but I reckon tobacco and pharmaceutical companies will be concerned but not until these attract more than a few thousand people in every country. They aren't penetrating the developing world, which is their biggest new market.

[Trumpybloke]

NQ is correct in his logic ( and devils advocacy) I think the reasons we are up in arms is because there are many many poisons on our supermarket/hardware shelves that will kill many,many people....this ban on the retail sale, is based more on the e-smoking threat ( as it is unregulated and probably more importantly untaxed) than on public health issues... a bottle of straight bleach has the capacity to kill how many toddlers? a bottle of whisky? what about the carbaryl concentrate in my shed for spraying vegies? not to mention the simple ingestion of cigarettes will kill a child.
For many years nicotine has been available to anyone ( for instance gardeners ) at a MUCH higher concentration 100g/litre !!!... suddenly our 4mg cartridge is the cause of worry and kneejerk?

It it wasnt e-smoking that was the problem , why does the minister feel the need to mention the use sale and possession of e-cigarettes being unlawful in his own media release?

[nqhqhz]

NQ is correct in his logic ( and devils advocacy) I think the reasons we are up in arms is because there are many many poisons on our supermarket/hardware shelves that will kill many,many people....this ban on the retail sale, is based more on the e-smoking threat ( as it is unregulated and probably more importantly untaxed) than on public health issues... a bottle of straight bleach has the capacity to kill how many toddlers? a bottle of whisky? what about the carbaryl concentrate in my shed for spraying vegies? not to mention the simple ingestion of cigarettes will kill a child.
For many years nicotine has been available to anyone ( for instance gardeners ) at a MUCH higher concentration 100g/litre !!!... suddenly our 4mg cartridge is the cause of worry and kneejerk?

It it wasnt e-smoking that was the problem , why does the minister feel the need to mention the use sale and possession of e-cigarettes being unlawful in his own media release?

I think much of this is true; however, don't expect politicians to think like this. It's easier to ban something than regulate it. Australia recently banned a certain member of the sage family which is not a poison and has no proven bad effects, but telling them it's as harmless as garden sage is pointless because this particular sage, given the way it was marketed, sounds really bad.

Same way as you can say that ordering poisons on the internet sounds dangerous. If I say, I'm going to get some whiskey, that's fine, but if I say I'm off to get a litre of C2H60, a chemical used as an industrial solvent, which kills hundreds of thousands worldwide and can cause death if its fumes are inhaled, that sounds bad. If we want to make ourselves look either inoccuous or harmless it's up to our suppliers, unfortunately.

Incidentally, is there still no text of this law available? Whenever anything is banned here, there is always a Statutory Instrument or Act available to view. In Europe you usually have a head start on any law like this while it is debated. Did your minister just decide this fell under some other law?

[Trumpybloke]

NQ the minister simply added nicotine to the list of scheduled poisons not available to the public for retail . more interestingly it was couched in the terms
"NICOTINE for human use when it is a Schedule 7 poison. (effective 1 January 2009)"
i.e DIRECTLY aimed at e-smoking methinks?
There was no publication of the intent to schedule as far as I am aware , and no-one to date has been able to find it , the closest I can find is in an internal Govt report in June 2008 stating possible outcomes that were awaiting "Further legal consideration " poli speak for we havent found the guy to give us the advice we want to see yet ?... This report was not made public and there was no public debate advertised that I or anyone else was aware of.
As to legislation , no-one has yet been able to locate anything apart from the Ministers press release hinting at it ... Letters have been sent direct to the minister but I am sure a response will be slow in coming.
In short I would perceive it as a well orchestrated, underhanded attempt . This thread is long , but there are many salient points of view that make it good reading , and a warning for others to proactively look at their own countries.
Currently there are forum members trying to source legislation issues and whether the correct avenues were followed, but this is foiled by the ( up to this time) total lack of publication of the decision and/or its process.

Edit P.S. I am glad I don't add a certain sage extract to my carts or I would be doubly depressed now LOL

[TropicalBob]

Trumpy, if you haven't read it before, you might want to read a magazine article I wrote and had published in America's SmokeShop magazine, October issue. Grab a cold one and kick back, because it's a major magazine centerpiece (long) that I made into a PDF and posted on my "parked" Web site:

http://www.karr-tv.com/E-smoking.pdf

Feel free to use any information it contains.