Australian ban; Egar illegal

[dc2k08]

I have 3 questions:

• how can they enforce these rules when there is no official documentation?
• Can someone be supplied with nicotine liquid directly from a source outside of victoria or austrailia?
• Does a nicotine liquid that is not meant for human consumption come under these regulations and how is this liquid defined?

[cucurucho]

Originally Posted by dc2k08

• how can they enforce these rules when there is no official documentation?

I'm sure there is official documentation, I just haven't seen it. That would involve sifting through a bunch of legislation, which I've done enough of recently.

• Can someone be supplied with nicotine liquid directly from a source outside of victoria or austrailia?

My understanding is only a source from outside Australia, but running the risk of it being confiscated by customs.

• Does a nicotine liquid that is not meant for human consumption come under these regulations and how is this liquid defined?

That's a good question. It requires further investigation.

[dc2k08]

thanks cucurucho, I hope someone releases official documentation of these regulations soon. surprised no report referenced it and no one who you talked to supplied a copy. it does seem that there might be two holes in their regulations. will need to pore through it some.

[cucurucho]

Ok, here's the part of the Poison List for NSW that deals with Nicotine, the number to the left of 'NICOTINE' is the Schedule that it falls under:

7 NICOTINE except:
(a) when included in Schedule 6;
(b) in preparations for human therapeutic use; or
(c) in tobacco prepared and packed for smoking. .
4 NICOTINE in preparations for human therapeutic use except:
(a) when included in Schedule 2; or
(b) for use as an aid in withdrawal from tobacco smoking in chewing gum, lozenges, or preparations for sublingual or transdermal use.
2 NICOTINE for use as an aid in withdrawal from tobacco smoking in preparations for inhalation.
6 NICOTINE in preparations containing 3 per cent or less of nicotine when labelled and packed for the treatment of animals.

The Duty Pharmacist informed me that to fall under Schedule 2 or 4, it must be approved by the TGA.

So it could be possible that if the liquid is "labelled and packed for the treatment of animals" that it could fall under schedule 6. Now I'll go looking for how the Schedules are implemented into the law.

[dc2k08]

I wonder where an insecticide containing nicotine gets categorised.

[cucurucho]

Ok, I found these guidelines for NSW: NSW DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH

Here are some relevant parts:

Schedules 5, 6 and 7 are taken up by domestic, industrial and agricultural poisons that are
all labelled to indicate their poisonous nature, such as “CAUTION”, “POISON” or
“DANGEROUS POISON” and are packed in special bottles which are sometimes required
to be fitted with child-resistant closures.

...

A poisons licence is not required to sell domestic poisons (Schedule 5), industrial and
agricultural poisons (Schedule 6) or agricultural chemicals or animal medicines in
Schedule 7, but special conditions apply to the storage and supply of Schedule 7 poisons.

If you are unsure whether or not you can legally sell a particular product or need
advice as to any conditions applying to its storage or sale, ask your supplier or
contact the Pharmaceutical Services Branch at the address shown at the end of this
Guide.

On this last point, the Pharmaceutical Services Branch said that it is illegal to sell nicotine that is classified Schedule 7.

This all sounded promising for Schedule 6, until I got to:

IMPROPER SUPPLY
It is an offence under the Regulation for any person to sell a scheduled poison classified
as-
(a) a medicine, in a quantity or for a purpose, that does not accord with the recognised
therapeutic standard of what is appropriate in the circumstances, or
(b) other than a medicine, for a purpose other than that stated on the container or for a
purpose other than that for which it is normally used.

This means that every person who sells scheduled poisons has an obligation to ensure
that they do not sell a product or a quantity of a product to a person, knowing that the
person intends or is likely to use it other than for a purpose or in a way that it is meant to
be used or is normally used. If a doubt exists, the seller has the right and an obligation to
refuse to sell the product(s) in those circumstances. Particular examples might be, selling
pain killers, methylated spirits, paint thinners etc knowing that they are going to be
misused or abused.

PENALTIES
The maximum penalty for most offences arising from the packaging, labelling or sale of
poisons is a fine of $1,100.

[nqhqhz]

Can I assume that "smoking" is, like here, defined elsewhere as use by combustion chewing, sucking etc (which isn't literally smoking)?

Is there an "interpretation" section on that poison list for "tobacco"?

[Trumpybloke]

G'Day Guys , been Awol for a few days due to travelling for a funeral , CuCu pretty much sums up what I have managed to source as well... good job Mate !!
TB is correct , we need to keep the momentum on this topic going, I know a few people might be sick to death of seeing it , but really it is the watershed moment that might just signal the downward slide to death of our pastime ..... If this thread does nothing more than to motivate those of you outside Australia into even considering the fate of vaping, and even better, DO something about it , it will be worth all the heartache and efforts us few Aussies are going through !

[cucurucho]

Originally Posted by dc2k08

I wonder where an insecticide containing nicotine gets categorised.

If it's not specified anywhere else, that would be Schedule 7, for agricultural purposes.

It's worth reading the whole document at the link I posted above. There is a lot of interesting information about packaging and storage. Conclusion: Selling E-Liquid containing nicotine is very illegal in NSW for several reasons.

[nqhqhz]

not sell a product or a quantity of a product to a person, knowing that the person intends or is likely to use it other than for a purpose or in a way that it is meant to be used or is normally used. If a doubt exists, the seller has the right and an obligation to refuse to sell the product(s) in those circumstances. Particular examples might be, selling
pain killers, methylated spirits, paint thinners etc knowing that they are going to be misused or abused.

I find Australian law to be full of nasty surprises like this. I remember seeing seeing lots of legal notices all over a wine shop. You could ban anything without even thinking about new legislation.