People keep saying it is not conclusively(*) proven that vaping is safe to bystanders.
Well, that is true. Vapor has 2 ingredients FDA-approved for direct inhalation (1st-hand AND 2nd-hand): nicotine and propylene glycol.
The other 2 ingredients are FDA-approved for cooking with, which means heating in restaurants: food flavors and vg.
So ALL 4 ingredients are LONG SINCE FDA-approved for second-hand inahalation.
Does that mean they are harmless? Hell, no. No food or coffee or anything hot has every been PROVED harmless second-hand. I have a friend who can die if someone puts a slice of lemon on a hot plate near her.
But if our standard is that something must be proved 2nd-hand harmless to have it indoors in public, the VERY FIRST thing that would have to go would be air fresheners, with all hot foods and drinks coming right after.
So I'm 100% fine with prohibiting vaping wherever hot food and drinks are prohibited. As soon as all restaurants convert to cold food only, I'm fine with prohibiting vaping in restaurants.
I am NOT fine with vaping in libraries, pediatrician's offices, day care centers (though the reason kids in day care centers cannot have steaming hot food has more to do with tongues and fingers than lungs)
BTW, anybody who thinks anything FDA-approved is safe needs to look up Chantix.
* It is only ALMOST conclusively proven safe for bystanders. See the Burstyn study http://publichealth.drexel.edu/~/med...ealth/ms08.pdf
Last edited by makeyourself; 01-21-2014 at 11:46 AM.
My point in my post was regardless of whether it is harmful or harmless. It's about discretion. As I said, this is still new and unknown to a lot of folks. Exposure should be a little more gradual until all the facts are common knowledge. While we should all be tolerant to everybody's personal rights, we need to understand what the other people who have not been exposed to vaping see and think.
I haven't been vaping very long. When I did start, one of the things I heard the most is how we can vape wherever we want without the same regulations as smoking cigarettes. I thought that was pretty cool. Still, I never did. I don't know if it was just common sense or what. It just doesn't feel appropriate to puff where other folks are eating, where smoking isn't allowed, or even watching a movie.
I was recently at a walk in movie and it came on the screen that electronic cigarettes were prohibited and anyone using them would be asked to leave. My thought was that it's a bummer that they have to specifically mention that. Why do they have to mention that? Because the vamping community has abused discretion. Imagine, with the way the projector shines through the theater, 5, 10, 20 vapers puffing on their tanks. What does the non-vaping community see? Again, they don't care to hear "oh it's not smoke, it's just harmless vapor". It sure looks like smoke and a lot of it in that type of light. And it does have substance and matter if I can see it and smell it. The vaping community has hurt itself.
On another point. The industry has hurt itself by categorizing vaping with cigarettes. "E-cigarettes" says all a non-vaper needs to hear. The damage is done. Websites and stores that market with a name with ecigarette or sell supplies for ecigarettes instead of vaporizers and vapor create an image for the uninformed, intolerant, and ignorant. Still, until this battle is won in our favor, discretion and understanding of their rights and space is in order.
I never agree with anything out of Chicago politics but that is another point.
I agree that that there is an element in the vape community with "I will show you' or a "bad ..." attitude when it comes to public vapiing. A couple of examples:
I was at a New years eve bar/restaurant party. There was a handful of people vaping ego/evods...the small stuff. A little vapor was in the air, but not too bad and quickly disapating. A small table of vapers came in and promptly pulled out their mechs and cloud blowing devices. They started vaping large clouds and challenging each other. Within a few minutes the bar was hazzy almost like a smoke machine went off. Someone asked them to lay off and the rhetoric started about being only vapor, will not hurt you, smells good and all the talk. A hassel broke out and all involved were asked to leave. SOme clapped when they left. Not good moment for vaping.
Net of the story it was a bad example for vaping in general and a small group messed it up for those vaping responsibilty. It is crap like that that drives the "ban vaping play". Oh and about the cold food comment... I have never seen hot food lay out clouds over and over again. IMHO...this is not an us and them. It is common sense and how we can all get along and mutual respect goes a long way. Make it start with you.
I travel a lot and go thorugh many airports. I often vape between flights. I do not like vaping in the bath room stall so I look for a gate with no plane and a small number of people. I do not pull out my mech and .3ohm build but something small like a itast VV or a ego with a evod and quietly stand or sit aside. It satifies my nic urge. I have never had anyone say anything to me negative. Some come up to ask about ecigs, where to get them, etc. Usually the smoker trying to quit. All good.
The other day I was traveling though an airport and there was a guy at a gate, a gate full of people, vaping away with pretty heavy vapor. It so happened the sun was low and shining through the windos which only added to the haze. A security guard asked him to stop after a few complaints. He did put his stuff away ,but again, the negative perception was made to the non vapers. Based on that experience a few more votes for a ban.
In some regards it is up to the vaping community to help our public image as a whole
I did not start vaping to prove I could vape in a public space. I started vaping to quit smoking cigarettes. I did. The public side of it all is just an added benefit, when it makes sense.
Last edited by tbaz; 01-21-2014 at 03:44 PM.
Saw a guy sitting in my local park the other day, brought his lawn chair, a magazine -- and a cigar. He was well off the beaten path where joggers and walkers are the main traffic, not near where the kids play. After a few minutes, though, I got a whiff of his cigar.
Now, I quit smoking 7 months ago thanks largely to vaping, but I gotta say, that cigar just smelled like freedom to me.
I agree about discretion. The BEST way to teach that our stuff is harmless is to MOSTLY go outdoors when vaping, and 'stealth vape' which we are now supposed to call "vape discretely" if we need to vape where smoking is prohibited.
I've always done that, and have not seen anybody else in the Bay Area doing differently.
Where I DO blow big clouds is when I'm walking past smokers outdoors. THEM I want to impress.
When I vape discretely in a pub, usually nobody notices. But I put my vape on the table between vapes so people can see it. Once in a blue moon someone in their 20's comes up to me and asks "Is that one of those e-cigarettes? Does it actually work? Do you think it would work for my Dad? He's starting to have heart problems........"
Now THAT is the kind of public demonstration I'm in favor of.
When I say it's nonsense to ban vaping in places that have food, I'm talking about 2 ways I will fight and stand my ground:
1. It should not be legislated. And I don't like to hear vapers cave to the "It's unknown" argument.
2. A vendor like Starbucks that makes a big public statement about banning vaping OUTDOORS is going to get boycotted by me. This is good for small local coffee houses anyway. But I will NOT lobby for a bill to FORCE Starbucks or anybody else to allow vaping. I just sent them my cut-up card and labels from store-bought Starbucks and an estimate of how much I had been spending there, along with thanks for turning me on to some delightful local one-of-a-kind coffee houses.
Funny this topic should come up today. I was eating lunch with a few guys at the office. At work we have a fairly nice sized lunch room where the employees all meet and eat and what not. A guy came out of one of the meeting rooms and to my surprise was tooting on a HUGE mod that I could not begin to recognize. He walked by and blew out a cloud that literally covered our entire table. Now I love vaping, and I support public vaping, but this was a bit much. I also think he bought the hip Montreal Flavor "Merde de Chien" as I have never smelled anything this awful in my life and it completely encased the entire lunch room. The guy vaping kind of had this smug look on his face and promptly left the lunch room. I had to run damage control on a bunch of people who thought he had realized some chemical warfare at our company.
Case in point - the guy was an ........ He had the mentality I see a LOT of vapers in Toronto have, which is " Its not banned so I can do this wherever I want and inconvenience everyone around me! Why? because I can!". The vaping community as a whole needs to brighten up and respect the wishes of others, or we are in for a very rough ride.
Penis envy (your mod's bigger than yours), 'pissing' contests (I can make bigger clouds than you), 'in-your-face' attitude...
Seems common sense takes leave very now and then and makes way for behaviour patterns which are more associated with teenagers in the middle of puberty.
Blowing big clouds between you and me in a movie theater will cost you the price of my admission ticket - and I'm going to ask nicely just once ...
As one French philosopher once put it: 'Politeness is like an air cushion. Not much in it but it softens daily blows of life'
I don't think there is anything wrong with using discretion with where to vape. I personally only vape in my home, my car, open air spaces, and around friends and family. They are happy I no longer smoke cigarettes so they support my new journey. However, I get it that people who've never smoked don't understand vaping and are naturally leary. Banning vaping in public places doesn't really bother me as long as said ban is limited to indoors. I was a PAD smoker for 14 years so I was accustomed to only being able to smoke in "designated" areas, which was ALWAYS outdoors. So with that said, think of vaping like a fart. Yes, you have the freedom to do it but that doesn't mean everyone around you has to be subjected to it. Just my humble opinion.
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