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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzvgonly View Post
    I don't think there is anything wrong with using discretion with where to vape. I personally only vape in my home, my car, open air spaces, and around friends and family. They are happy I no longer smoke cigarettes so they support my new journey. However, I get it that people who've never smoked don't understand vaping and are naturally leary. Banning vaping in public places doesn't really bother me as long as said ban is limited to indoors. I was a PAD smoker for 14 years so I was accustomed to only being able to smoke in "designated" areas, which was ALWAYS outdoors. So with that said, think of vaping like a fart. Yes, you have the freedom to do it but that doesn't mean everyone around you has to be subjected to it. Just my humble opinion.

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    I'd be OK with only vaping outside, living in California, except that I need more vaping time than I needed smoking time to get the same nic. As it is I still go outside with coffee and vape and pace when I need a break. It was 73 degrees today.

    People in Minnesota or even the Sierra Nevada and certainly Alaska might have a different view.

    Also, if we vape occasionally indoors, and discreetly, we EDUCATE people about vaping. For instance I vape in my office at work, a little. Before I started that, I demo'd it outside for some colleagues. Get them used to it in small increments. Explain first.

    Same with the restaurants, if I'm inhaling and they don't see anything much being exhaled, it's pretty non-scary. I'll stop IMMEDIATELY if asked, and I don't do it in family restaurants near kids. But we have to be out there a LITTLE bit or the "don't understand vaping" thing will never go away, especially with the ANTZ trying so hard to scare people.

    And another point: the more people have seen good-citizen-style vaping, the sillier the ANTZ look. Which is, IMO, a big party of WHY the ANTZ don't want people to see us. To keep their kingdom.

    But being a so-and-so arrogant jerk while vaping -- who knows, maybe the ones that do that are undercover ANTZ? An ANTZ doctor DID go to the Contra Costa County Board of Supervisor's meeting and blow huge clouds, to show them something "they don't want to see." And it was family members of smokers brought up in smoky houses and cars who most-opposed "seeing that again after all these years."
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deeo View Post
    You work in a restaurant and your upset that you can't vape in the kitchen. I vape and i sure wouldn't want someone vaping over my food. Sure vaping is harmless but think about it the vape came from inside your mouth. I am not trying to start an argument just i understand why your boss wants to vaping in the kitchen.
    So you only want robots making your food? Breath also comes from inside your mouth or nose and is probably more likely to carry harm without vapor than with.

    The boss doesn't want people vaping in the kitchen because some politicians were paid of by Big Pharma through ALA/ACS to ban vaping inside buildings.
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    [QUOTE=Berylanna;11994877]I'd be OK with only vaping outside, living in California, except that I need more vaping time than I needed smoking time to get the same nic. As it is I still go outside with coffee and vape and pace when I need a break. It was 73 degrees today.

    People in Minnesota or even the Sierra Nevada and certainly Alaska might have a different view.

    Also, if we vape occasionally indoors, and discreetly, we EDUCATE people about vaping. For instance I vape in my office at work, a little. Before I started that, I demo'd it outside for some colleagues. Get them used to it in small increments. Explain first.



    To this, I wasn't implying that we should only be limited to vaping outdoors in public. I'm a stay-at-home mom so when I do frequent public places, in general, I don't spend enough time in one place that I can't wait to vape. That's mainly because I'm focused on the task at hand. However, if the urge hits me then I will "stealth vape" publicly indoors. Not everyone subscribes to that notion and those are the people I take issue with. To me, that shines a bad spotlight on vaping and sets the wheels in motion for bans such as the one instituted in Chicago.

    I've had many occasions to EDUCATE people on vaping because I proudly wear my MOD around my neck or carry it in my hand wherever I go. It's an eye-catcher so people want to know what it is and how it works. I take great joy in being able to spread the word.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Myk View Post
    So you only want robots making your food? Breath also comes from inside your mouth or nose and is probably more likely to carry harm without vapor than with.

    The boss doesn't want people vaping in the kitchen because some politicians were paid of by Big Pharma through ALA/ACS to ban vaping inside buildings.
    To this, I have a few points.

    First, maybe a bit off topic but a bit of an example of abuse of our freedom as vapers. I run a business. I have employees. While they may be able to do their job with one hand, they can do it better and be more productive with two. They get their breaks. If they can't survive without nicotine between breaks and give me what I'm paying for, they have a more serious addiction or oral fixation than they can deal with and maybe need some kind of rehab. Bottom line, even though it's possible to do a lot of jobs with one hand, generally it can be done better, safer, and more productive with two. That is, of course, unless an employee was hired handicapped that way and I knew that's what I was paying for.

    As far as the breath comment, again, this isn't an issue about whether it's harmful or not harmful. It's about discretion and respect. Again, I'll point out that vaping is still brand new on a daily basis for a lot of people and they don't understand. I understand that they don't understand. If it has substance and they can see it and smell it, logic says it's a little more than just plain breath. Harmful or not, they see it as it is. There is a proper time and place for vaping. In a public kitchen preparing food, in my opinion, isn't one.

    And one more point as a citizen who does vape. If I saw someone vaping while preparing or serving my food in a restaurant, I would be totally turned off and that place would probably have one less client. If things are that lax, what else is allowed? Do the employees even have to wash their hands after the restroom? What else?

    From an employers point of view, employees should respect that they are there to trade time for money. Productive time at the best of their ability. As well, employers need to respect the needs of employees and give them the designated time to take care of them. And of course, whether smoking or vaping, in most public service fields it should be out of the view of the public and away from the product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratoblaster View Post
    To this, I have a few points.

    First, maybe a bit off topic but a bit of an example of abuse of our freedom as vapers. I run a business. I have employees. While they may be able to do their job with one hand, they can do it better and be more productive with two. They get their breaks. If they can't survive without nicotine between breaks and give me what I'm paying for, they have a more serious addiction or oral fixation than they can deal with and maybe need some kind of rehab. Bottom line, even though it's possible to do a lot of jobs with one hand, generally it can be done better, safer, and more productive with two. That is, of course, unless an employee was hired handicapped that way and I knew that's what I was paying for.

    As far as the breath comment, again, this isn't an issue about whether it's harmful or not harmful. It's about discretion and respect. Again, I'll point out that vaping is still brand new on a daily basis for a lot of people and they don't understand. I understand that they don't understand. If it has substance and they can see it and smell it, logic says it's a little more than just plain breath. Harmful or not, they see it as it is. There is a proper time and place for vaping. In a public kitchen preparing food, in my opinion, isn't one.

    And one more point as a citizen who does vape. If I saw someone vaping while preparing or serving my food in a restaurant, I would be totally turned off and that place would probably have one less client. If things are that lax, what else is allowed? Do the employees even have to wash their hands after the restroom? What else?

    From an employers point of view, employees should respect that they are there to trade time for money. Productive time at the best of their ability. As well, employers need to respect the needs of employees and give them the designated time to take care of them. And of course, whether smoking or vaping, in most public service fields it should be out of the view of the public and away from the product.
    What does that have to do with anything.
    If you don't want your employees vaping outside of break time be a boss and tell them not to do it outside of break time. Don't get the government to do it for you.
    When I worked for somebody else it was decided that smoking away from my bench cut into work. When it was a new building and we didn't want to stink it up with smoke it was decided that stepping outside posed a security risk. These things are for each individual business to decide not the government's.
    Until vaping I couldn't open a retail store because of the cigarette ban. Ban vaping and I couldn't open a retail store again. I simply cannot step 15' away from my unmanned store to smoke/vape.

    And if you are not rational that's nobody's issue but your own. Whether you see breath or not it's there. It carries germs. The majority of vapor has some germ killing properties. Nobody said anything about vaping while prepping food until someone's irrational fears of vapor dreamed that up. Obviously whether someone vapes or not has no bearing on their rationality.

    $2453 spent on ecigs. Join http://www.casaa.org/ protect your ability to vape.

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    [QUOTE=mzvgonly;11995099]
    To this, I wasn't implying that we should only be limited to vaping outdoors in public. I'm a stay-at-home mom so when I do frequent public places, in general, I don't spend enough time in one place that I can't wait to vape. That's mainly because I'm focused on the task at hand. However, if the urge hits me then I will "stealth vape" publicly indoors. Not everyone subscribes to that notion and those are the people I take issue with. To me, that shines a bad spotlight on vaping and sets the wheels in motion for bans such as the one instituted in Chicago.

    I've had many occasions to EDUCATE people on vaping because I proudly wear my MOD around my neck or carry it in my hand wherever I go. It's an eye-catcher so people want to know what it is and how it works. I take great joy in being able to spread the word.


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    I'd like to do something more like that, but my Daddy taught me not to put things around my neck and since I went into some of the same factory/lab jobs as he had, I stick to it. So I'm wearing mine in a really ugly pouch on my belt, along with my cell phone and my work badge. It makes me look SO FAT. But everything else I tried had a tendency to fall out of whatever pocket, hit the ground, and cost me somewhere between $30 and $50.

    We really need to invent a way for women to have things on our person in a more graceful way. Purses don't count. If I were 30 years younger and had my original youthful legs, maybe I'd consider a garter holster. Phone on right leg, mod on left?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myk View Post
    What does that have to do with anything.
    If you don't want your employees vaping outside of break time be a boss and tell them not to do it outside of break time. Don't get the government to do it for you.
    You so miss the point of my point. Once again, it's about discretion and respect. If we don't observe and practice it while we can, then the government will do it for us.

    And yes, I did make a point off topic a bit. Just my views as a business owner and how some folks, if allowed to, will abuse common sense rules. I do make my own rules for my business. Thank goodness I'm still able to. And on topic, the fact that I and others realize what we're up against will put in place and observe some common sense regulations on their work force regardless if "we can vape anywhere we want without the same regulations as cigarettes". And back off topic, having something in hand rather than the tools to do the job being paid for is a distraction that shouldn't be allowed. And yes, it should be up to each individual employer to make and enforce these rules. Thank goodness we're still able to.
    Last edited by Stratoblaster; 01-25-2014 at 05:49 PM. Reason: rephrased a comment

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steamix View Post
    Penis envy (your mod's bigger than yours), 'pissing' contests (I can make bigger clouds than you), 'in-your-face' attitude...

    Seems common sense takes leave very now and then and makes way for behaviour patterns which are more associated with teenagers in the middle of puberty.'
    I like the way you put this. I've often got this impression from a lot of folks as well.
    Last edited by Stratoblaster; 01-25-2014 at 05:53 PM. Reason: Left out a word or two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratoblaster View Post
    You so miss the point of my point. Once again, it's about discretion and respect. If we don't observe and practice it while we can, then the government will do it for us.

    And yes, I did make a point off topic a bit. Just my views as a business owner and how some folks, if allowed to, will abuse common sense rules. I do make my own rules for my business. Thank goodness I'm still able to. And on topic, the fact that I and others realize what we're up against will put in place and observe some common sense regulations on their work force regardless if "we can vape anywhere we want without the same regulations as cigarettes". And back off topic, having something in hand rather than the tools to do the job being paid for is a distraction that shouldn't be allowed. And yes, it should be up to each individual employer to make and enforce these rules. Thank goodness we're still able to.
    Once again you miss the point. This IS about the government doing it for us as Chicago did. It has nothing to do with anyone vaping while prepping food (which there is already a hand to mouth rule in place that is covered under food prep guidlines).

    After a small vape get together I said I can understand a business deciding not to allow vaping, the smell was strong and sickningly sweet with less than 10 people in a vape shop. That is not the same as what Chicago did.
    Chicago did it because of ANTZ corruption and taxes not because someone was sub-ohming in public. None of these bans are because of someone's actions causing a public outcry, they are because the status quo loses money to ecigs.
    We are not still able to set the rules in our businesses, we lost that with the smoking ban. Now it's being expanded to something that is not claimed to be a threat to innocents like second hand smoke was lied about. There's not even a nasty lingering odor for people to complain about. THAT is what this is about.

    You want to blame vapers, I want to blame who is causing the loss of property rights.

    When I smoked at my bench I hung a cigarette from my mouth. When I'm vaping I take a few quick puffs, it would take more time for me to get up and run outside every few minutes ... or I could go outside and smoke so I'd get the longer lasting and faster hitting nicotine hit from tobacco. Even if I managed to run outside to vape all summer as soon as this arctic weather hit I'd be smoking because coils don't work too well once it hits the negative digits.
    That is what this comes down to. They want us smoking so they can continue to have an enemy to drive donations, government continues to rake in $3+ per pack in taxes, and pharma gets to sell ineffective NRT and expensive drugs to fight smoking diseases.

    $2453 spent on ecigs. Join http://www.casaa.org/ protect your ability to vape.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratoblaster View Post
    Blowing big clouds of vapor out where everyone can see it and smell it is taking push to the level of shove.
    This. I recommend everyone read this post. There is also the sanitary concern of putting something to your mouth then immediately going to prepare food.

    Yes, you could wash your hands after every use, IF you do. Big if.

    I do condone hitting it in the bathroom. Out of immediate sight of people.

    My philosophy is that I do not want attention from random people in almost any way, whether it be from vaping or otherwise.

    This argument is similar to the open carry vs concealed carry debate. There most likely isn't a wrong answer. It's a matter of preference.

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