Illegality in New South Wales (products that res

[cucurucho]

Edit: Oops, title was supposed to be "Illegality in New South Wales (products that resemble tobacco products)"

I was going to post this in the Australian ban; Egar illegal thread, but thought it deserved its own, as it highlights another potential way that personal vaporisers could be obstructed by the law.

After hearing about the ban, I immediately sent the following to the NSW department of health:

Dear Resources Officer,

I read today about the state of Victoria banning the sale and use of 'battery-powered cigarettes', also known as 'electronic cigarettes' ( VICTORIAN BAN ON BATTERY-POWERED CIGARETTE - Premier of Victoria, Australia ). I have since read some rumours that similar bans are planned for NSW, and would like to know more about these plans, if indeed the rumours are true.

I have been using an electronic cigarette for three months now, and am concerned that if they are banned I may end up returning to smoking of tobacco products. I would like to know if there have been any studies conducted in Australia that have demonstrated health risks involved in 'e-smoking' that do not apply to other (in my experience, less successful) nicotine replacement methods like patches and gum. I would greatly appreciate it if you could let me know if you are aware of any plans to ban the devices and refer me to someone who might be able to give me more information on the plans.

Kind Regards.
xxxxxxxxx

I sent that on the 1st of January, and received the following reply today:

Dear Mr XXXXX,

I write in response to your email of 1 January 2009 about the use of electronic cigarettes in New South Wales. In NSW under section 61G (3) of the Public Health Act 1991 a person is prohibited from selling any confectionery or other food, or any toy, amusement or other product that resembles a tobacco product. Based on the information available about the electronic cigarette it is possible that a person selling this product may be in breach of this Act. Furthermore, the nicotine that is used in an e-cigarette is a restricted poison on schedule 7 of the Poisons List and therefore a specific authority is required from the Director-General of the NSW Department of Health before such poisons may be obtained.

If the e-cigarette is intended as a withdrawal aid for smoking then it would be considered to be a therapeutic good and required to go through a rigorous process to be registered on the Australian Register of Therapeutic Goods. Quitting smoking is one of the best investments a smoker can make to improve their health. As you are aware there are products which are recommended to assist and increase the chances of smokers making a quit attempt, these product are referred to as Nicotine Replacement Therapy (NRT). I have attached a fact sheet which discusses nicotine dependence and withdrawal and contains six-questions to assist smokers in determining their level of dependence to the nicotine in tobacco and to select the most appropriate NRT Nicotine Dependence and Withdrawal Factsheet - NSW Department of Health. Further, there is the Quitline which is a confidential telephone-based smoking cessation service to support smokers to quit smoking. Quitline advisors have good knowledge in the health effects of smoking; understand the quitting process and how difficult quitting smoking can be. The advisors can give you advice about quitting smoking, provide strategies on preparing to quit, preventing relapse and staying a non-smoker as well as provide information on products and services to help you quit. The Quitline can be contacted by calling 13 QUIT (13 7848).

I trust this information is of assistance. Should you require further information, please contact Joanne Smith, Manager, Strategic Policy and Partnerships, NSW Department of Health, on (02) 9391 9164.

Yours sincerely


NSW Health
www.health.nsw.gov.au

It's the first paragraph that interests me the most (as everything else in there I have since found out about from elsewhere. To summarise: It is illegal in NSW to sell anything resembling a tobacco product (of course, this excludes tobacco products.

This really demonstrates the importance of manufacturers coming up with new designs that do not look anything like cigarettes, pipes or cigars. Now I have no idea how close a resemblance it would have to be to fall under these laws. My 801 with green LED looks nothing like a tobacco product in my opinion. But the fact that the tip lights up, and vapour comes out the end might just be enough to legally 'resemble' a tobacco product...

Having said that, it is only illegal to sell such devices, not to own and use them unless you're using them with nicotine. This does not change anything for me personally in the short term, as I will always be able to buy products from China. But it's something to be wary of as awareness of personal vaporisers spreads and bans become more likely. I would suggest to suppliers around the world to do their research and find out if there are any similar laws in their countries and states that could hinder their right to sell these wonderful products.

[Trumpybloke]

Cucu , good to see NSW pollies are at least around ... I have not had one response from an Australian Minister or politician to a letter yet , I have had responses from canadians , NZudders, UK scientists , and even Manufacturers .... The Minister , NOT A PEEP !!!
The answer given highlights some interesting points as you noted.. it seems anything to do with this is going to be mired in " Points of Law " rather than legislation.. great tactic as it means no decisions can or will be made without throwing a heap of money at lawyers... great tactic from the government , they use our own money to fight us !!! Not ALL pollies are dumb

[cucurucho]

Either way Trumpy, I'm sure your bike mod would be perfectly legal

Also, here is section 61G of the Public Health Act 1991:

PUBLIC HEALTH ACT 1991 - SECT 61G
Smokeless tobacco, confectionery and toys
61G Smokeless tobacco, confectionery and toys

(1) A person who manufactures or sells in New South Wales a tobacco product designed for consumption otherwise than by smoking is guilty of an offence.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to the manufacture or sale of prescribed mixtures or products in prescribed circumstances.

(3) A person who sells:

(a) any confectionery or other food, or

(b) any toy, amusement or other product,

that resembles a tobacco product is guilty of an offence.

Maximum penalty (subsection (3)): 25 penalty units.

[Lithium1330]

This kind of laws are spreading fast, it is almost the same argument on the law in Mexico "It looks too much like a real product of tobacco" and hence "It could encourage people to start smoking" but what can be more encougaring than a REAL CIGARETTE? also maybe there is a loophole on one paragraph:
"...(3) A person who sells:

(a) any confectionery or other food, or

(b) any toy, amusement or other product,

that resembles a tobacco product is guilty of an offence...."

It is specificly for SELL not for manufacture, give, find, use or anything else.

I wonder if there is already a similar law in the US...

[cucurucho]

Indeed, it's much easier to pass laws to prevent the supply of products than anything else without infringing on an individual's rights.

[TropicalBob]

I'm still wondering how many chocolate cigars the Mexican government rounded up and confiscated to save tomorrow's children from killer nicotine addiction.

[taz3cat]

Their starting to want to tax sodas with sugar in them, I guess that will lead to having to get doctor RX for a regular soda or ban. People are getting crazy over this "you can't have that it's not good for you" and they really dig in with "it's for the childrens sake" like children don''t have parents.

Maybe I am crazy wanting freedom from people telling me what is good for me and what is not. I only drink diet soda anyway but it still makes me mad.

[Lithium1330]

Originally Posted by TropicalBob

I'm still wondering how many chocolate cigars the Mexican government rounded up and confiscated to save tomorrow's children from killer nicotine addiction.

None, because kids are now using their pencils to simulate they are smoking, this is truth, I saw it at an elementary school, the kids were putting chocolate powder in their mouths, "puffin" their pencil and blowing the chocolate out, this was my face when I saw that---->

Thank God no legislators saw that, because nex week pencils could be banned here....

Obiously this kids are imitating people who smokes real cigarettes, since in my whole town nobody else has an e-cig yet.

[BiscuitSlayer]

Originally Posted by taz3cat

Their starting to want to tax sodas with sugar in them, I guess that will lead to having to get doctor RX for a regular soda or ban. People are getting crazy over this "you can't have that it's not good for you" and they really dig in with "it's for the childrens sake" like children don''t have parents.

Maybe I am crazy wanting freedom from people telling me what is good for me and what is not. I only drink diet soda anyway but it still makes me mad.

I believe that proposed law was in New York. From what I understand the people of that state were pretty put off about the proposal. Kind of funny how the people of NY are so willing to be some of the first people that are ready to give up their rights.

[taz3cat]

I can remember when you could buy candy in a cig box that looked just like a cig. Not everyone who ate the candy started smoking. If they had there would never have been all these problem over smoking.