Why shouldn't the FDA interfere? - Page 13 - e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat

CandyGirl · 03-17-2009, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b00stzx3

Can't we market it as something else? Don't people use those VCR cleaners to get high? Especially gay dudes? Label it nicotine incense or somethign along those lines.

Nuck · 03-17-2009, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kate

.....

Hahahaha...when I read the comment, in the back of my mind I thought.."Holy Sh.tballs.....wait till Kate sees that one!"

taukimada · 03-17-2009, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuck

Hahahaha...when I read the comment, in the back of my mind I thought.."Holy Sh.tballs.....wait till Kate sees that one!"

im wit caNuck there

Kate · 03-17-2009, 09:47 PM

I'm not much of a reactionary Nuck, I usually only care about serious stuff

EDIT
Come on guys, be fair, I hardly ever challenge stuff on the forum, much better things to do.

Sun Vaporer · 03-17-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuck

Sun, I understand you are pessimistic, but what exactly do you base it on. I can't for the life of me think of a single time when hardware has been banned, even the hardware that is obviously used for illegal activities FAR worse than nicotine.

Call it a personal vaporizer and detach it from the nicotine and it's untouchable. I guess I just don't see what precedence your grim outlook is based on.

Nuck--you think logically--Agencies like the FDA do not--they do knee jerk reactions. "When in Doubt--Ban Everything" is their mentallity--the only reason I say that is we have a definitave statment from the FDA that they state that the devices are illegal to sell --That is not logical, but the FDA is not logical---Sun

taukimada · 03-17-2009, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kate

I'm not much of a reactionary Nuck, I usually only care about serious stuff

EDIT
Come on guys, be fair, I hardly ever challenge stuff on the forum, much better things to do.

i agree... i was just.... looking for word... "agast" when i saw the post.. and knew you were currently posting and thought "oh my... that's not gonna go over well"

Kate · 03-17-2009, 09:54 PM

Nah, it's not an insult or anything much, just a stereotype. Fairly harmless.

Grody · 03-17-2009, 10:19 PM

I partially agree with Nuck, with regards to the devices not being banned. I can see them being banned initially, but then being reintroduced later as miniature smoke machines, or some sort of novelty device that doesn't involve nicotine.

But the juice, I just don't see it making it through. I think if e-cigs survive, they will come in sealed, disposable cartridges. But that's assuming that the juice is as dangerous as people are saying it is.

Before my interest in e-cigs last month, the only other time I recall hearing about nicotine being toxic was in an episode of Columbo, and the warnings on Nicotine Gum. Maybe I've heard it elsewhere, but just didn't pay attention because my ears have been trained to shut down when I hear about the dangers of anything to do with cigarettes. So I really don't know how dangerous this stuff is.

I just had an order of Totally Wicked delivered today, (great service, ordered last tuesday night, shipped wednesday, and arrived in Vancouver from the UK today).

So anyways, this was my first experience with the eye dropper. I'm having trouble with my atomizers, so I opened up a 20ml bottle of coconut, and was dripping into one, testing it, dripping into another, etc. So I was doing this for about 30 mins, and I got up to help my son with something, and knocked over the bottle. About 10ml spilt onto the coffee table, and as I was clearing the area of people and pets, I started thinking......

When my son was a baby, and he'd spill his drinks, he'd swirl his hand around in it. If a child did this with my spilt 10ml of 36mg, would they die?

I wiped it up with paper towel, making sure that I didn't touch the liquid, and then put the paper towel in the trash. Noticing that the trash was almost full, I wondered what would happen if the next person to throw out garbage pushed the trash down to make more room, and touched the paper towel, would they die?

What if it happened in a public place, like a restaurant, would I put the paper towel in my pocket? Would I call the waitress over, ask her to put on rubber gloves, and dispose of everything in a sealed bag with a biohazard sticker? How would that go over with the public?

What if it was just some guy, who spilit his liquid in the restaurant, and didn't know of the dangers, or didn't care. Could the waitress die whe she cleaned up the mess? Could she spread it around the restaurant with her table rag?

How bad is this stuff? If it's this bad, then anybody who thinks that it will remain legal is smoking something other than e-liquid. You can talk about freedom until your blue in the face. I don't even have the freedom to smoke within 6m of a bustop or doorway because someone might get a whiff of my smoke, do you really think anybody is going to tolerate millions of us walking around dripping this liquid?

Sun Vaporer · 03-17-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grody

. What if it happened in a public place, like a restaurant, would I put the paper towel in my pocket? Would I call the waitress over, ask her to put on rubber gloves, and dispose of everything in a sealed bag with a biohazard sticker? How would that go over with the public?

What if it was just some guy, who spilit his liquid in the restaurant, and didn't know of the dangers, or didn't care. Could the waitress die whe she cleaned up the mess? Could she spread it around the restaurant with her table rag?

How bad is this stuff? If it's this bad, then anybody who thinks that it will remain legal is smoking something other than e-liquid. You can talk about freedom until your blue in the face. I don't even have the freedom to smoke within 6m of a bustop or doorway because someone might get a whiff of my smoke, do you really think anybody is going to tolerate millions of us walking around dripping this liquid?

Grody--Very good and logical thought process you have --now you can see how an agument for saftey against e-liquid will easily be spun into "Oh My God--its radation!!!". That is why I contend the FDA will have a field day---thanks for the input--Sun

TropicalBob · 03-17-2009, 10:45 PM

Grody, it's not that bad. Your scenarios are certainly possible, but the amount of transdermal absorption through skin contact would not be fatal -- unless we're talking an extreme allergy or something. A person would need to ingest the fluid to die from it. 10ml would be fatal, easily to any child, most likely to Hulk Hogan.

But our liquids are not untouchable, as you describe. If you contact it, wash it off as soon as you can. Some people have skin reactions to it, but others have rubbed it on themselves without so much as a red spot.

I see this scenario: A freshly opened super mini cart slips off a table onto the floor. You know, the itty-bitty kind used in the "looks just my cigarette" e-cig. Little things. Along comes a toddler on all fours. What do toddlers do with small objects they encounter? They pop 'em into their mouth. How many moms have used a finger to fish out objects they've seen a toddler put into a mouth?

But what if mom doesn't see that one second of reach and eat?

That's my nightmare scenario. And, yes, there's enough liquid in that little cart to kill a toddler. And who will understand that the screams of pain a short time later signify nicotine poisoning?

The FDA is supposed to approve this?

View Poll Results: What requirements should the FDA put on e-liquid?
Childproof caps	56	77.78%
Prominent poison warnings on label	54	75.00%
Ingredient listings on label	57	79.17%
3rd party analysis results available	32	44.44%
Batch testing performed and certified	38	52.78%
Restriction of sale to minors	57	79.17%
Expiration date on label	53	73.61%
Manufacturer listed on label	44	61.11%
pH level listed on label	9	12.50%
Nicotine concentration in standardized format [mg/ml] listed on label	61	84.72%
Safety pamphlet in box (dosing, interaction, OD treatment info)	46	63.89%
None at all	5	6.94%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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03-17-2009, 09:47 PM	#124
Kate Moved On Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: UK Posts: 7,355	I'm not much of a reactionary Nuck, I usually only care about serious stuff EDIT Come on guys, be fair, I hardly ever challenge stuff on the forum, much better things to do.

03-17-2009, 09:54 PM	#127
Kate Moved On Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: UK Posts: 7,355	Nah, it's not an insult or anything much, just a stereotype. Fairly harmless.

03-17-2009, 10:19 PM	#128
Grody Full Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 23	I partially agree with Nuck, with regards to the devices not being banned. I can see them being banned initially, but then being reintroduced later as miniature smoke machines, or some sort of novelty device that doesn't involve nicotine. But the juice, I just don't see it making it through. I think if e-cigs survive, they will come in sealed, disposable cartridges. But that's assuming that the juice is as dangerous as people are saying it is. Before my interest in e-cigs last month, the only other time I recall hearing about nicotine being toxic was in an episode of Columbo, and the warnings on Nicotine Gum. Maybe I've heard it elsewhere, but just didn't pay attention because my ears have been trained to shut down when I hear about the dangers of anything to do with cigarettes. So I really don't know how dangerous this stuff is. I just had an order of Totally Wicked delivered today, (great service, ordered last tuesday night, shipped wednesday, and arrived in Vancouver from the UK today). So anyways, this was my first experience with the eye dropper. I'm having trouble with my atomizers, so I opened up a 20ml bottle of coconut, and was dripping into one, testing it, dripping into another, etc. So I was doing this for about 30 mins, and I got up to help my son with something, and knocked over the bottle. About 10ml spilt onto the coffee table, and as I was clearing the area of people and pets, I started thinking...... When my son was a baby, and he'd spill his drinks, he'd swirl his hand around in it. If a child did this with my spilt 10ml of 36mg, would they die? I wiped it up with paper towel, making sure that I didn't touch the liquid, and then put the paper towel in the trash. Noticing that the trash was almost full, I wondered what would happen if the next person to throw out garbage pushed the trash down to make more room, and touched the paper towel, would they die? What if it happened in a public place, like a restaurant, would I put the paper towel in my pocket? Would I call the waitress over, ask her to put on rubber gloves, and dispose of everything in a sealed bag with a biohazard sticker? How would that go over with the public? What if it was just some guy, who spilit his liquid in the restaurant, and didn't know of the dangers, or didn't care. Could the waitress die whe she cleaned up the mess? Could she spread it around the restaurant with her table rag? How bad is this stuff? If it's this bad, then anybody who thinks that it will remain legal is smoking something other than e-liquid. You can talk about freedom until your blue in the face. I don't even have the freedom to smoke within 6m of a bustop or doorway because someone might get a whiff of my smoke, do you really think anybody is going to tolerate millions of us walking around dripping this liquid?

03-17-2009, 10:45 PM	#130
TropicalBob ECF Veteran Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Charlotte, FL USA Posts: 5,076	Grody, it's not that bad. Your scenarios are certainly possible, but the amount of transdermal absorption through skin contact would not be fatal -- unless we're talking an extreme allergy or something. A person would need to ingest the fluid to die from it. 10ml would be fatal, easily to any child, most likely to Hulk Hogan. But our liquids are not untouchable, as you describe. If you contact it, wash it off as soon as you can. Some people have skin reactions to it, but others have rubbed it on themselves without so much as a red spot. I see this scenario: A freshly opened super mini cart slips off a table onto the floor. You know, the itty-bitty kind used in the "looks just my cigarette" e-cig. Little things. Along comes a toddler on all fours. What do toddlers do with small objects they encounter? They pop 'em into their mouth. How many moms have used a finger to fish out objects they've seen a toddler put into a mouth? But what if mom doesn't see that one second of reach and eat? That's my nightmare scenario. And, yes, there's enough liquid in that little cart to kill a toddler. And who will understand that the screams of pain a short time later signify nicotine poisoning? The FDA is supposed to approve this?