Why shouldn't the FDA interfere?

[OutWest]

Originally Posted by DisMan

Batch codes + date code + supplier ID is the way to track such items. Where I work, we constantly label product for this reason.

When people speak of batch testing, it's actually a very simple process and is practiced in the food industry every day. All you do is take one to ten bottles off the line when you're getting ready to ship. You test those bottles. If they come up clean, you ship the product. If not, you scrap it because something went wrong in the process. You would *never* have a bad batch if every process has been followed. Oftentimes, people see bad batches because they didn't follow a cleaning process somewhere in the chain.

Batch testing is a good method. And, if you're really worried about bad batches, then it's smart to keep batches small to make sure a bad batch doesn't cause significant financial distress.

The poisoned peanut butter we experienced recently actually had batch testing..and the testers actually had results with salmonella being evident. They re-tested the batch (just in case of false positive) and the batches cleared. Now, I haven't seen how the re-testing took place....same bottle? Same lane? More stringent test? Anyway, batch testing works unless a person makes the mistake. And I am willing to bet the poisoned peanut butter issue was a production focused individual who made the decision for cash over safety. So they marked it as "passed" when, in reality, it was not a passing batch.

AND, just so you know, batch testing should be enforced at the manufacturer level. You should *never* buy something that doesn't meet your standards. The means distributors like Puresmoker should not buy untested liquid from their China manufacturers.

batch testing by the manufacturer is one thing, 3rd party analysis and batch testing is a whole nother matter and nearly impossible to do for many reasons (the expense, the fact that mfgs can submit a golden sample, and much more).

In a similar vein, the US Govt has decided that all items for children ages 12 and under and all household furnishing (except for kitchen appliances) have to be tested by 3rd parties for lead. That means that if the little old lady down the street makes a flower girl dress for the neighbor's wedding, she has to make two so that one can be sent off for third party testing. An artist that makes sterling silver baby rattles under the CPSIA has to make two so that one can be sent to the labs for testing - the testing destroys the silver object and shouldnt even have to be done because you cant use lead solder on silver. Not only did that just double the cost of the one rattle, it also added approx. $500 in extra costs for the certification tests. Under this same 3rd party batch testing requirement, the overseas bulk mfg can send in one golden sample, claim all the others are in the same batch, and then proceed to use lead paint, etc.

Batch testing at the mfg level should be performed and I would guess already is being performed by the mfgs in china. However, there's no way to prove if they are or arent. Even if you ask, they could easily lie about it. And, if it becomes an FDA requirement, the only ones that it can be enforced upon is the local distributor.

Another aspect, if the U.S. supplier buys in liter bottles and rebottles it, theyre now a manufacturer and would have to perform batch testing. At that point, though, there is no way to know 100% (even if the chinese mfg puts lot numbers on the bottles) which is truly from the same batch. Thus, the U.S. (or other country for that matter) supplier would have to get a sample from every bottle tested. Since most dont have an in-house chemist and analysis equipment, that means 3rd party testing, which would add hundreds of dollars in cost to each bottle the supplier gets in, whick in turn will drive the retail price up astronomically.

As for requiring chinese mfgs to do batch testing (if theyre not already), good luck with that. Telling any company how to do their business will at the very most result in one of two things: being told to take your business elsewhere or being told that youre welcome to purchase the business so that you can run it as you see fit.

[DisMan]

As for requiring chinese mfgs to do batch testing (if theyre not already), good luck with that. Telling any company how to do their business will at the very most result in one of two things: being told to take your business elsewhere or being told that youre welcome to purchase the business so that you can run it as you see fit.

Or a ban on all Chinese imports...or a tariff on all Chinese imports.....or several other things.

[jamie]

Originally Posted by OutWest

Telling any company how to do their business will at the very most result in one of two things: being told to take your business elsewhere or being told that youre welcome to purchase the business so that you can run it as you see fit.

Telling any company how to do their business results in you being Walmart.

[DisMan]

Originally Posted by jamie

Telling any company how to do their business results in you being Walmart.

Yes, you become the cheapest place to get any product for the consumer and sliced profitability per item. And, in the end, everybody wins.

Sounds like a really bad situation to me....

I wanted to be anti-Walmart for a long time....but after seeing the prices being cheaper on everything, I cannot say Walmart is bad anymore. I bought trees from them....$20.00 each. They are still alive. The tree farm wanted $200.00 for the same trees.

Yes, I like Walmart...next, let's pick on Home Depot and say they are worse than Ace Hardware (which charges higher prices).

[jamie]

Originally Posted by DisMan

Yes, you become blahblahblahblah higher prices).

And that has something to do with whether or not there might be leverage here to get manufacturer batch testing? Or it's just something you auto-paste whenever you see the word Walmart?

[DisMan]

Originally Posted by jamie

And that has something to do with whether or not there might be leverage here to get manufacturer batch testing? Or it's just something you auto-paste whenever you see the word Walmart?

Maybe it has something to do with the quote that I quoted....perhaps not.

Do I need to call Captain Obvious or would you like to look up one post?