Why shouldn't the FDA interfere? - Page 6 - E-Cigarette Forum

Caesarea · 03-15-2009, 01:55 PM

Agree with Tropical Bob - right to vape + duty to remove the dubious.

Kate · 03-15-2009, 02:57 PM

I can't remember the exact quote but I read this years ago:

'The difference between a tragedy and a comedy is that in a comedy the characters work out the plot before it's too late.'

Working out scenarios and making plans to avoid potential tragic events (risk assessment) is the best way to end up having a laugh.

http://www.creativity-engineering.com/comtrag.html

TropicalBob · 03-15-2009, 03:12 PM

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry!

I am sure you're not arguing for continuing a lack of knowledge. Is this a test, teacher? I choose comedy.

Kate · 03-15-2009, 03:20 PM

Oh, sorry TBob.

I'm not really arguing about anything to be honest. Reading this thread made me feel a bit philosophical and reminded me of that quote I read long ago.

It seems to me that we go back and forth between comedy and tragedy with our discussions and I guess I'd rather we end up laughing.

Maybe in a way I'm agreeing with the points made to reduce risks by improving packaging and safety measures.

Sorry I was a bit obscure

HK45 · 03-15-2009, 03:35 PM

Where in the Constitution of the United States does it state that it is the government's responsibility to protect us from ourselves? The American people have been slowly giving up their rights for the past few decades that they are used to it. They want a Big Brother to take care of them.
Examples: Although I use these devices by choice, are seatbelt laws, motorcycle helmet laws, etc.. Situations where I am endangering only myself, no one else!
In matters like these you have a choice; go back to analogs, chew some Nicorette, put on a patch, but don't infringe on my rights!
Benjamin Franklin said it best, I think:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Nuck · 03-15-2009, 03:45 PM

You confuse your right to risk your own health with a suppliers right to risk the health of children. Not even a parent has that right. Safe packaging just isn't a constitutional issue.

Edit: You also assume that suppliers don't ship outside of the US which isn't the case.

vape4life · 03-15-2009, 04:00 PM

If a supplier is MISLEADING by their claims, then it is the government's authority to step in (on a strictly philosophical level). Otherwise, it's nobodies business but my own.

Via J.S. Mill, the foundational philosopher of all modern-day democratic systems.

HK45 · 03-15-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuck

You confuse your right to risk your own health with a suppliers right to risk the health of children. Not even a parent has that right. Safe packaging just isn't a constitutional issue.

Edit: You also assume that suppliers don't ship outside of the US which isn't the case.

Nuck,

Did you read only half of the post and miss where I stated "in situations where I am endangering only myself, no one else"?

Nuck · 03-15-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vape4life

If a supplier is MISLEADING by their claims, then it is the government's authority to step in (on a strictly philosophical level). Otherwise, it's nobodies business but my own.

On a strictly philosophical you are probably right. In the real world, governments enact laws to protect society. Traffic lights, product testing, product packaging, warning labels, etc can all be argued that they infringe on individual liberty. Absolute freedom in a society doesn't exist, never has and never will.

The only real debate is how far a government can and should go in it's effort to protect. Arguing against safe packaging and labeling on a highly poisonous liquid that is bottled with candy flavorings is a bit silly. You can argue it, but I promise you, the governments are not going to agree.

Nuck · 03-15-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HK45

Nuck,

Did you read only half of the post and miss where I stated "in situations where I am endangering only myself, no one else"?

I assumed you were referring to living alone with your liquid. Unfortunately, suppliers (which is the debate we are having) ship to a wide variety of people. If you want to take the liquid out of the safe packaging and have a bath in it, go for it. Nobody is trying to take that right away from you. We're just arguing the inevitability of safe packaging for the juice at a supplier level.

View Poll Results: What requirements should the FDA put on e-liquid?
Childproof caps	56	76.71%
Prominent poison warnings on label	55	75.34%
Ingredient listings on label	57	78.08%
3rd party analysis results available	32	43.84%
Batch testing performed and certified	38	52.05%
Restriction of sale to minors	58	79.45%
Expiration date on label	53	72.60%
Manufacturer listed on label	44	60.27%
pH level listed on label	9	12.33%
Nicotine concentration in standardized format [mg/ml] listed on label	62	84.93%
Safety pamphlet in box (dosing, interaction, OD treatment info)	46	63.01%
None at all	5	6.85%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

03-15-2009, 01:55 PM	#51
Caesarea Ultra Member ECF Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: UK Posts: 2,901	Agree with Tropical Bob - right to vape + duty to remove the dubious. __________________ Vaping since 7th March 09 JUDGE LEON ROCKS! 14th Jan 10

03-15-2009, 03:35 PM	#55
HK45 Senior Member ECF Veteran Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: USA Posts: 188	Where in the Constitution of the United States does it state that it is the government's responsibility to protect us from ourselves? The American people have been slowly giving up their rights for the past few decades that they are used to it. They want a Big Brother to take care of them. Examples: Although I use these devices by choice, are seatbelt laws, motorcycle helmet laws, etc.. Situations where I am endangering only myself, no one else! In matters like these you have a choice; go back to analogs, chew some Nicorette, put on a patch, but don't infringe on my rights! Benjamin Franklin said it best, I think: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." __________________ "How terrible to entertain a lunatic! To keep his earnestness from coming close!..." ~ EM

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03-15-2009, 02:57 PM	#52
Kate Moved On Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: UK Posts: 7,336	I can't remember the exact quote but I read this years ago: 'The difference between a tragedy and a comedy is that in a comedy the characters work out the plot before it's too late.' Working out scenarios and making plans to avoid potential tragic events (risk assessment) is the best way to end up having a laugh. http://www.creativity-engineering.com/comtrag.html

03-15-2009, 03:12 PM	#53
TropicalBob PV Master ECF Veteran Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Charlotte, FL USA Posts: 5,470	I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry! I am sure you're not arguing for continuing a lack of knowledge. Is this a test, teacher? I choose comedy.

03-15-2009, 03:20 PM	#54
Kate Moved On Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: UK Posts: 7,336	Oh, sorry TBob. I'm not really arguing about anything to be honest. Reading this thread made me feel a bit philosophical and reminded me of that quote I read long ago. It seems to me that we go back and forth between comedy and tragedy with our discussions and I guess I'd rather we end up laughing. Maybe in a way I'm agreeing with the points made to reduce risks by improving packaging and safety measures. Sorry I was a bit obscure

03-15-2009, 03:45 PM	#56
Nuck Ultra Member ECF Veteran Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,142 Tweet this post!	You confuse your right to risk your own health with a suppliers right to risk the health of children. Not even a parent has that right. Safe packaging just isn't a constitutional issue. Edit: You also assume that suppliers don't ship outside of the US which isn't the case.

03-15-2009, 04:00 PM	#57
vape4life Full Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 55	If a supplier is MISLEADING by their claims, then it is the government's authority to step in (on a strictly philosophical level). Otherwise, it's nobodies business but my own. Via J.S. Mill, the foundational philosopher of all modern-day democratic systems.