Legal Issues with selling e-cigs - e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat

Nem · 03-19-2009, 09:09 AM

It appears the sale of e-cigs in the USA is illegal but not being enforced. It seems no one (retail or online) are being bothered by big brother and just keep selling anyway. If they decide to enforce this, will it apply to all e-cig sales or just ones with nicotine? Thoughts

KDMickey · 03-19-2009, 09:15 AM

I've been doing some research about this, and I cannot see how the FDA could consider e-liquid without nic within their jurisdiction. As for the e-cigs themselves, that's up to us. If we cast them in a light that seems to be primarily a nicotine delivery system, that puts it in the realm of FDA. But, if we cast it in a e-liquid delivery light, then that means the FDA cannot consider its primary purpose to deliver nicotine. Does that make sense? From what I've seen, legally speaking, the FDA's sway over personal vaporizers can only hold if the nic continues to be the focus of the product.

Cheers,
-Mickey

Walrus · 03-19-2009, 09:17 AM

If I remember correctly, a spokesperson for the FDA just made the statement that e-cigs were illegal last week. The fallout/backlash/whatever has yet to happen.

Nem · 03-19-2009, 09:29 AM

I agree it would be outside the realm of the FDA but they do not make that distinction. Fallout will be interesting for sure. I can see the lawsuits now.

bribri · 03-19-2009, 09:45 AM

Perhaps all e-liquid sellers should not list mg's on the sites. Only low, medium, high.

Frankie · 03-19-2009, 10:10 AM

"Medium nic" is as bad as "16 mg" from the regulator´s point of view. Unfortunately. I do not think they have levels of "new drug" under which they would consider if off the scope of their involvement.

KDMickey · 03-19-2009, 10:16 AM

Why not take all nic levels off of the websites and do it as an under the table word of mouth type thing? Just show the flavors and have people place orders. Then, we can e-mail them to specify nic strength off the record.

thatguyjeff · 03-19-2009, 02:48 PM

Just because someone from a gov't agency (even the POTUS himself) says something is illegal does not make it so. The judiciary must make a determination based upon the laws as they are in the books at the time.

In other words, something like this (which is pretty much a grey area) will need to go through the court system before anyone really knows if it's illegal or not.

What the FDA can do is push for new legislation that is specific to e-cigs. Though that may not necessarily happen either since that has to go through the legislature.

ozrick · 03-19-2009, 02:58 PM

From what I've read the FDA had not declared the sale of e-cigs / nic juice illegal but said it warranted heavy scrutiny? Maybe I missed something. This issue may well be on it's way to an FDA crackdown but everything that I've read points more to a game of chicken right now between the FDA and the e-cig market.

I could be wrong of course.

Nuck · 03-19-2009, 03:02 PM

The entire FDA discussion revolved around the use of an ecig with nicotine in the context of an NRT. The 'combination' of the nicotine juice and the hardware in this context was claimed to be illegal.

There are holes large enough to drive a truck through at this point but I think most people expect some action to be taken on the sale of nicotine liquid in the future.

03-19-2009, 09:09 AM	#1
Nem Full Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 77	Legal Issues with selling e-cigs It appears the sale of e-cigs in the USA is illegal but not being enforced. It seems no one (retail or online) are being bothered by big brother and just keep selling anyway. If they decide to enforce this, will it apply to all e-cig sales or just ones with nicotine? Thoughts

03-19-2009, 09:17 AM	#3
Walrus Manufacturer Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 2,213 Blog Entries: 8 Tweet this post!	If I remember correctly, a spokesperson for the FDA just made the statement that e-cigs were illegal last week. The fallout/backlash/whatever has yet to happen. __________________ http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/for...-sigbanner.gif Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

03-19-2009, 10:10 AM	#6
Frankie ECF Veteran Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Slovakia Posts: 820	"Medium nic" is as bad as "16 mg" from the regulator´s point of view. Unfortunately. I do not think they have levels of "new drug" under which they would consider if off the scope of their involvement. __________________

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03-19-2009, 09:15 AM	#2
KDMickey Full Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Denver, CO, USA Posts: 112	I've been doing some research about this, and I cannot see how the FDA could consider e-liquid without nic within their jurisdiction. As for the e-cigs themselves, that's up to us. If we cast them in a light that seems to be primarily a nicotine delivery system, that puts it in the realm of FDA. But, if we cast it in a e-liquid delivery light, then that means the FDA cannot consider its primary purpose to deliver nicotine. Does that make sense? From what I've seen, legally speaking, the FDA's sway over personal vaporizers can only hold if the nic continues to be the focus of the product. Cheers, -Mickey

03-19-2009, 09:29 AM	#4
Nem Full Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 77	I agree it would be outside the realm of the FDA but they do not make that distinction. Fallout will be interesting for sure. I can see the lawsuits now.

03-19-2009, 09:45 AM	#5
bribri Unregistered Supplier Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: San Mateo, CA. Posts: 307	Perhaps all e-liquid sellers should not list mg's on the sites. Only low, medium, high.

03-19-2009, 10:16 AM	#7
KDMickey Full Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Denver, CO, USA Posts: 112	Why not take all nic levels off of the websites and do it as an under the table word of mouth type thing? Just show the flavors and have people place orders. Then, we can e-mail them to specify nic strength off the record.

03-19-2009, 02:48 PM	#8
thatguyjeff Full Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: St. Paul MN, USA Posts: 37	Just because someone from a gov't agency (even the POTUS himself) says something is illegal does not make it so. The judiciary must make a determination based upon the laws as they are in the books at the time. In other words, something like this (which is pretty much a grey area) will need to go through the court system before anyone really knows if it's illegal or not. What the FDA can do is push for new legislation that is specific to e-cigs. Though that may not necessarily happen either since that has to go through the legislature.

03-19-2009, 02:58 PM	#9
ozrick Supporting Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 289	From what I've read the FDA had not declared the sale of e-cigs / nic juice illegal but said it warranted heavy scrutiny? Maybe I missed something. This issue may well be on it's way to an FDA crackdown but everything that I've read points more to a game of chicken right now between the FDA and the e-cig market. I could be wrong of course.

03-19-2009, 03:02 PM	#10
Nuck ECF Veteran Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,067 Tweet this post!	The entire FDA discussion revolved around the use of an ecig with nicotine in the context of an NRT. The 'combination' of the nicotine juice and the hardware in this context was claimed to be illegal. There are holes large enough to drive a truck through at this point but I think most people expect some action to be taken on the sale of nicotine liquid in the future.