NPR: Officials Probe E-Cigarettes' Health Claims

[Vapor Pete]

Your use of the term "you people" makes me wonder what the hell you're doing here??? You obviously do not use ecigs..so why are you here?????to persecute someone who is trying to quit smoking???what?

Wish I new who you are quoting????

[Vapor Pete]

I know its like beating a dead horse, but many of us have been saying that removing ANY statement refering to health claims should be avoided. Most people here agree. I myself have made the comment before that, any word or term even associated with a health claim, or the word HEALTH or HEALTHIER should be stopped. Also, it would behoove suppliers and manufacturers to stop selling e-cigs, electronic cigarettes, smoke sticks or whatever, and sell PERSONAL VAPORIZERS. Again, alot of them have already done so, and to refer to them in the ECF as such is proper. I would even move to rename the ECF to "personal-vaporizer-forum.com"! or p-vforum! If it looks like a cigarette, has cigarette in its name and says healthier in any way.... it is my opinion you have put the bulls-eye on your own forehead.
And SmokingEverywhere ought to be brought to its knees for its b-s statements. Good thing they arent in Upstate NY malls (yet) because I would seriously be giving their sales reps a good talking to about marketing and what they're doing to the rest of the industry.
My best,
-VP

[tokrjokr]

Sorry, forgive this newbie..below is the quote.....

Npro_Silver
Junior Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 2

Default
Hey i was wondering if any of you people ever thought about the vapor in you lungs. Does it acumulate making water in your lungs cause if so you could easyli die of dry drowning such as water in your lungs.Let me know what you think

thanks

[IntoxiNation]

Hey i was wondering if any of you people ever thought about the vapor in you lungs. Does it acumulate making water in your lungs cause if so you could easyli die of dry drowning such as water in your lungs.Let me know what you think

thanks

You can find Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) for the ingredients in the liquid. Propylene Glycol is one of the biggies, and it has no adverse inhalation effects.

Actually the biggest ingredient, nicotine, is classified as causing respiratory irritation, but that also applies to regular cigarettes, plus cigarettes contain countless other ingredients with even more risks.

[Vapor Pete]

Sorry, forgive this newbie..below is the quote.....

Npro_Silver
Junior Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 2

Default
Hey i was wondering if any of you people ever thought about the vapor in you lungs. Does it acumulate making water in your lungs cause if so you could easyli die of dry drowning such as water in your lungs.Let me know what you think

thanks

No reason to be forgiven my friend, I didnt know how to quote replies in the beginning either! However, I do find your reply to this persons post to be a bit harsh. His use of the term "you people" is (in my mind) generalizing us, PV users, and then posing the question he has to us. No harm no foul. I have seen his question before, and when you think about it for a second, it can actually make a bit of sense. He may not be an e-cig user yet, which is why he's here, and this question may be the only one holding him back.
My best,
-VP

[ejfan1977]

I personally like the "Alternative to smoking cigarettes" statement. I agree the "Health" and "Healthier" remarks as far as promoting e-cigs is causing a lot of problems, but it did get a lot of us to start using them. I think by promoting what e-cigs do not have in them versus what is in cigarettes is the best way to promote them. I think people can decide for themselves if they think it is a "healthier" alternative or not without saying they are "healthier", since we do not know for sure....

I personally feel better, so I feel at this time they are healthier for me. There are many people who have had some adverse reactions to PG and so now we have VG which is great, but I haven't seen any of the main stream sellers (Njoy, Smoking Everywhere, etc) promoting the VG alternative to those who are having adverse reactions to PG. This does not help their cause or ours because those people haven't been made aware that this is a possible solution to their problem if they had a reaction to the PG. They just assume that it is bad for them because the PG is making them sick. Does this make any sense? Plus... think of how many people are not members of this forum (or any e-cig forum), so they are not as educated/aware of so many of the aspects of e-smoking. Hopefully I did not go too far off base with this...

[TheLizinator]

I can't remember any instance where the FDA endorsement or lack thereof has factored into a decision I've made about a "supplement", a cigarette, food, or any other product. It's not like the FDA inspires confidence (considering they are yet another gov't. agency swayed by political & special interest pressures). What I would prefer is to have them keep their bureaucratic mitts off my private life, particularly anything I make a personal choice to use, eat, breathe, etc.. Aren't these the same "experts" who convinced consumers that hydrogenated fat substitutes (margarine) were the healthy alternative to natural butter or that eggs were Evil Incarnate? This is but one example of their tunnel vision when it comes to "healthy". Are they not the same bunch of stooges who permit carcinogenic nitrates in cured meats? Good call (eye roll).

Another influence in all this: the anti-smoking zealots who need to weed their own gardens before they start pointing out the weeds I should remove from my own. Instead of whining about smoky bars being a health threat, they need to clam up long enough to peer inside that highball glass and scrutinize the health impact of their drug-of-choice. Talk about a drug that impacts the health of others as well as the user. I would argue that liquor causes more mental and physical damage to the health of users (and everyone involved with them) than all other drugs combined.

Breathing steam does not cause "water in the lungs". Steam vapors are a therapeutic treatment for all sorts of lung problems. It isn't the introduction of fluids that creates lung disorders, it's the dysfunction of the lungs in expelling fluids that creates that medical problem. There is water vapor in the air you breathe.

This brings to mind a 20 year old health alert regarding Alzheimers and aluminum. People stopped drinking from aluminum cans, cooking in aluminum pans, using antiperspirants that contained aluminum. The problem with the aluminum/Alzheimer's theory was that it failed to realize that the aluminum deposits observed in the brains of patients might have been there because their disorder prevented their brains from filtering aluminum. It was too simplistic and lacked any support for determining that aluminum was the cause and not the effect of Alzheimer's disease. I would suggest Googling steam therapy for respiratory illness to see what comes up. Vaporizers are highly recommended for respiratory therapy.

I've read enough thoughtful, intelligent posts in this forum to realize "you people" are not blind or ignorant to the wide spectrum of issues surrounding vaporized nicotine. The FDA should be so circumspect and thorough.

[C-kool Dad '09]

To put the issue of health claims in some perspective, I bought a bottle of Whole Foods-brand echinacea the other day. This is a house brand from a large, established U.S. retailer. The label reads "Whole Foods Echinacea, Powerful Immune Protection*." The asterik refers the reader to a footnote on the side of the bottle that reads: "This statement has not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease." I assume that a company like Whole Foods has run this by their lawyers (probably had them write the line) and that e-cig manufacturers and retailers should adhere to similar procedures. The elimination of health claims for e-cigs would probably go a long way towards defusing the FDA effort.

Wally

P.S. Incidentally, God knows what's in these capsules. They stink.

A while back the FDA (pushed heavily by thier main benefactor / Big Pharma) attempted to take control over the 'supplement' industry. While it is true that certain herbs can be contradictory with certain prescribed drugs (grapefruit is also a culprit) they wanted everything up to and including Vitamins reclassified and controlled. The public didn't buy this one and nothing changed (so far) except additional disclaimers required. I mentioned pharma as a benefactor to FDA simply because the FDA relies on the pharma industry to do their own research/trials. There are entities out there that want to take Control for the sole benefit of enriching themselves - not protecting the public. Sure would be nice if the e-cig (which should be renamed) had a simple disclaimer attached.

[pagn8or]

*** bump ***

[Eclectic_Current]

C-Kool said: A while back the FDA (pushed heavily by thier main benefactor / Big Pharma) attempted to take control over the 'supplement' industry. While it is true that certain herbs can be contradictory with certain prescribed drugs (grapefruit is also a culprit) they wanted everything up to and including Vitamins reclassified and controlled. The public didn't buy this one and nothing changed (so far) except additional disclaimers required. I mentioned pharma as a benefactor to FDA simply because the FDA relies on the pharma industry to do their own research/trials. There are entities out there that want to take Control for the sole benefit of enriching themselves - not protecting the public. Sure would be nice if the e-cig (which should be renamed) had a simple disclaimer attached.

Good post C-Kool the only problem about a "... simple disclaimer ..." is that it's impossible to keep a disclaimer simple when the FDA and whoever else keep requiring that the disclaimer address so many issues in order to be fully complete. Here is an example of a disclaimer i previously posted elsewhere in this forum to illustrate just how long a disclaimer has to be in order to come close to this notion of completeness and even this example falls short of being fully complete:

Warning & Disclaimer: Nicotine is an addictive substance. No personal vaporization (PV) appliance has been approved by the U.S. FDA or Health Canada as a Nicotine Replacement Therapy (NRT) device and no clinical trials have yet established that PVs are effective for the purpose of quitting smoking. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or mitigate any disease or medical condition. No person under 18 years of age may purchase any PV appliance. Do not use any PV appliance if you are presently a non smoker or if you are a smoker currently undergoing any NRT protocol whatsoever. Do not use any PV appliance if you suffer from or are at high risk of suffering from respiratory conditions, heart disease, high blood pressure or diabetes or any other serious or chronic illness. Consult with your doctor before use of any PV appliance if taking prescription medications or if you suffer from any food or flavor additive[*] allergies. Do not use any PV appliance if you are pregnant or nursing. Be aware of symptoms of nicotine overdose and immediately discontinue use of any PV appliance if you experience any unusual onset of symptoms such as nausea, dizziness, a weak or rapid heartbeat, vomiting, diarrhea, headache, sweating, stomach pain or cramp, weakness, drooling or seizures. Seek medical attention promptly particularly if you experience more than one of the aforementioned symptoms. Although Personal Vaporizers, also known as electronic cigarettes closely emulate the smoking experience without involvement of any combustion process, they do contain an electric heating element and should never be used anywhere inflammable gases may be found such as at gas stations. The purchase of a PV appliance from this website constitutes acceptance that the use of any PV is at your own risk in full understanding that PVs are only intended as smoking emulators and alternative nicotine delivery systems without claim of constituting any form of smoking cessation program or NRT. *[ For typical additives see: p. 22,23 of NZ Health research report at: http://www.healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartr...t30-Oct-08.pdf ]

Its strange that there is any issue at all about the simple claim that vaping is safer than smoking when such a statement is manifestly true given that PG and Nicotine are already 2 of the (say) 4000 chemicals found in cigarettes so the non ingestion of 3998 chemicals makes vaping 99.95% lighter ( or safer) than smoking just from the straight math in comparing these activities. Vaping is obviously even safer still when you consider that the temperature of vapor is ( i'm guessing ) considerably cooler than freshly generated tobacco smoke so that would suggest a further simple argument why vaping is simply and obviously safer.