Smoking Everywhere V. FDA Daily Docket Sheet Update--APPEAL's COURT ISSUES STAY

[JustMeAgain]

Here we are again. What are we all going to do at this time of day after we know the outcome?

Sun, this may be a dumb question, but I want to know if am understanding this right:

After SE filed for a relief b/c the situation was going to force them out of business, a reasonably dependable source has said that the FDA has now released SE's shipments.

If that's true, then SE got what they were asking for, just not by the court's ruling. So now there's no reason for Judge Leon to respond to SE? Would this not indicate that there negotiations going on behind closed doors which might explain the delay?

If that was the case, would LegalOne be able to tell us they are negotiating or would that not be allowed?

[PhiHalcyon]

Where was this posted and where is the FDA's definition or description of the e-cig? Are you saying that the FDA is claiming that all cesation tools are now classified as tobacco products, but since there is no loose leaf tobacco involved in their usage they are a tobacco drug that can be regulated? That really sounds like double talk.

If you want to read the FDA's position as presented to the court, then go here: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/NewsEve.../UCM173193.pdf

If you want to read the legal definition of tobacco products and drugs, then here they are:

Section 201(rr) of the FDCA:
(1) The term ‘tobacco product’ means any product made or derived from tobacco that is intended for human consumption, including any component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product (except for raw materials other than tobacco used in manufacturing a component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product).
(2) The term ‘tobacco product’ does not mean an article that is a drug under subsection (g)(1), a device under subsection (h), or a combination product described in section 503(g).
(3) The products described in paragraph (2) shall be subject to chapter V of this Act.

Section 201(g) of the FDCA:
(1) The term "drug" means (A) articles recognized in the official United States Pharmacopoeia, official Homoeopathic Pharmacopoeia of the United States, or official National Formulary, or any supplement to any of them; and (B) articles intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease in man or other animals; and (C) articles (other than food) intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of man or other animals; and (D) articles intended for use as a component of any article specified in clause (A), (B), or (C).

If you want to read the entire Tobacco Control Act, then go here: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...256enr.txt.pdf

And if you want to share your opinion on how the FDA should regulate tobacco products, then go here:
FDA Seeking Public Comment on Tobacco Regulation

[Sun Vaporer]

Here we are again. What are we all going to do at this time of day after we know the outcome?

Sun, this may be a dumb question, but I want to know if am understanding this right:

After SE filed for a relief b/c the situation was going to force them out of business, a reasonably dependable source has said that the FDA has now released SE's shipments.

If that's true, then SE got what they were asking for, just not by the court's ruling. So now there's no reason for Judge Leon to respond to SE? Would this not indicate that there negotiations going on behind closed doors which might explain the delay?

If that was the case, would LegalOne be able to tell us they are negotiating or would that not be allowed?

JustMe --if that was the case--Legalone would have never posted. Of course there is always a chance of settlement. You are correct that if what Eric said is indeed happening, then SE de-facto got what it asked the Court for. But it begs the question --will that hold true for next week or the week after.

The parties really want some legal boundries here to work with and that is why you see them going the distance. Again I do contend that it will be a total win for either of the parties and you may see cross-appeals.


Sun

[SSRob]

I un-subbed from this thread just because I couldn't keep up with it all.

Here we are two months later and still no ruling. Crazy.

Thanks for your efforts Sun.

Rob

[lotus14]

Here we are again. What are we all going to do at this time of day after we know the outcome?

The day(s) after the outcome we will see a plethora of opinions about what the opinion means.

Then there will be long and involved discussions of the appeals process, assuming a settlement isn't reached. In which case there will be long and involved discussions of what the settlement means.

This is just Round 1.

[DC2]

The day(s) after the outcome we will see a plethora of opinions about what the opinion means.

Then there will be long and involved discussions of the appeals process, assuming a settlement isn't reached. In which case there will be long and involved discussions of what the settlement means.

This is just Round 1.

Yeah, and you left out the discussions of what we are going to do about it.

As for me, personally, I intend to get much more involved.
But until there is a decision I don't know where my efforts should be focused.

So I spend my time helping newbies, digging good articles, and waiting.

[lotus14]

Yeah, and you left out the discussions of what we are going to do about it.

As for me, personally, I intend to get much more involved.
But until there is a decision I don't know where my efforts should be focused.

So I spend my time helping newbies, digging good articles, and waiting.

I was speaking of this thread. As for "what we can do about it," well, I think we can do a lot.

CASAA might be a good place to start. The discussion is starting to get underway there, and the idea seems to be focused on what can be done to advocate for consumers in many arenas.

[DC2]

I was speaking of this thread. As for "what we can do about it," well, I think we can do a lot.

CASAA might be a good place to start. The discussion is starting to get underway there, and the idea seems to be focused on what can be done to advocate for consumers in many arenas.

Yeah, I voted in the CASAA elections, and I'm very pleased with who was elected.
But until the decision comes down, everything, to me anyway, seems like shooting in the dark.

The goal of helping new people come on board is ALWAYS there.
And that is where I am spending my time until we know what our battle really is.

[lotus14]

Yeah, I voted in the CASAA elections, and I'm very pleased with who was elected.
But until the decision comes down, everything, to me anyway, seems like shooting in the dark.

The goal of helping new people come on board is ALWAYS there.
And that is where I am spending my time until we know what our battle really is.

Helping new people and spreading the word about PVs is a laudable goal in and of itself. IMO not much more important than that, even after the ruling.

As for CASAA, we haven't reached the shooting stage yet. Still organizing the troops and getting that fun boot camp stuff done

[ritalin]

If you want to read the FDA's position as presented to the court, then go here: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/NewsEve.../UCM173193.pdf

Well what am I missing here then? Why does this verdict even mean anything if the FDA is already going to call it a drug and keep it banned? If you mean to say that this case is determining that the e-cig is a tobacco product that falls into the realm of cigarettes or a tobacco product that falls into the realm of a drug, then you are arguing semantics with me.

What am I missing in your argument?