Smoking Everywhere V. FDA Daily Docket Sheet Update--APPEAL's COURT ISSUES STAY

[EtherMagic]

Problem is Jerry--if you look at what Counsel for SE wrote and I agree, even he conceeds that no matter how it turns out---there is going to be regulation, either as a tobacco product or as a drug. So even if Judge Leon finds for SE, there is going to be some kind of mandates--the scope of them will be the troubling part.


Sun

Honestly don't matter to me, it's common sense there will be some form of regulation, obviously will be and has to be. I just pray that this process last long enough, say at-least a good 2 months after X-Mas for me to be able to afford 30-40 more Atty's and 10-20 more batts!

I been with the 510 since end July beginning Aug and just a couple days ago lost my first Atty due to usage (I also lost one whole 510 e-cig at work, and a couple Atty's where not hitting right within the first couple days of vapin, so there gone as well! That's what you get when you order in bulk!!!).

So I now have 16 Atty's left, and 9 Batts I say 10 of those Atty's hit great, the other 6 seem like test models, all WHITE batts!!! I'm ordering all black next time around!

I feel a need to stock up soon, but with X-mas, it's just hard to do at the moment.

[Drunkwaco]

So if this case get's 100% forgotten by everyone. That's good for us bad for SE right?

[ritalin]

I don't like being wrong any more than the next person, but, the way I see it, everything I have stated in the past has merely been my contribution towards our collective effort in arriving at the truth. And the unfortunate truth is: the ecig is an unapproved drug/device combination product.

If anyone wishes to make a complete coherent argument to the contrary, then, please, be my guest.

Not really an argument as much as it is a question.
What about intended use? The FDA has stated personally to me in email, that this is a drug delivery device based on intended use as put forward by the claims from SE and others as a smoking cessation tool. Would it not be possible for the judge to determine that the intended use is a tobacco alternative and not a cessation tool?

[Sun Vaporer]

Not really an argument as much as it is a question.
What about intended use? The FDA has stated personally to me in email, that this is a drug delivery device based on intended use as put forward by the claims from SE and others as a smoking cessation tool. Would it not be possible for the judge to determine that the intended use is a tobacco alternative and not a cessation tool?

Ritalin--Yes.


Sun

[BigJimW]

I assume that there will be no movements today as today being a holiday, am I correct?

[Legal One]

correct - Courts are closed. As a follow up to a few posts back - if the matter were as simple as deleting a few claims about smoking cessation this would have been resolved long ago. As you will note from the facts in the record before the Court, the FDA takes the position that under no circumstances can an e-cigarette be anything other than a drug/device combination. The argument parallels what they said in the Brown case regarding regular cigarettes. As far as the argument that the e-liquid contains a small fraction of derived from tobacco and is therefore not derived from tobacco because it is not "primarily" derived from - that is incorrect - the active ingredient at issue here - nicotine - is 100% derived from tobacco. Without the nicotine you do not replicate the effects of a regular cigarette. This case ultimately boils down to whether nicotine will be allowed to be used like alcohol, caffeine or any number of products that have some physical effect on the body but are not used for therapeutic purposes.

[Sun Vaporer]

[Caesarea]

Thanks Sun - that's going on my kitchen memo board!






I have some pins on the board - if all does not go well...

[jerrydon10]

I'm really not trying to be argumentative here, but here is my argument...lol:

Nicotine is not a tobacco product. Nicotine is in all plants and is used in photosynthesis to gain food from sunlight.

While it's true that tobacco contains higher amounts of nicotine than most plants, it certainly is not unique to tobacco.

Also, synthetic nicotine can be built in the lab. So, a question to those on here like me who ponder this weird stuff: When I create nicotine in a lab am I manufacturing a tobacco product?

Of course not. I am creating a chemical necessary to all plants that stay alive using photosynthesis. By this logic I think it most prudent to conclude that nicotine is NOT a tobacco product because it is not unique to tobacco.

Then is nicotine a drug? No.

In pharmacology, a drug is "a chemical substance used in the treatment, cure, prevention, or diagnosis of disease."

Drug - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nicotine does acutely effect the body, but only temporarily so. So does vodka. So does caffeine....Then when you have that morning coffee, are you doing drugs?

Of course not.

I can find no logic that would allow me to conclude that nicotine is a tobacco product or a drug. Therefore the ecig cannot be a drug delivery device nor can juice be seen as a tobacco product.

[Sun Vaporer]

Court closed today for the Holiday---wonder if Judge Leon is pondering it or is on the golf couse today---what do you think---and this is a true rendition of Judge Leon-


Sun