Smoking Everywhere V. FDA Daily Docket Sheet Update--APPEAL's COURT ISSUES STAY

[Adam]

At what cost does one incur to inplead itself into a case? I have no idea if I can have a lawyer submit something and then if the judge accepts it, then I am automatically in the case or if this means my lawyer has to be at all the hearings, etc. I won't know about that until my lawyer reads the ruling and opinion of the judge and gets back with me. Losing $5,000+ is one thing, adding on top of that several grand more to interject into a case is another.

Sun, I guess I don't understand the technicallities of this matter as far as inpleading into a case. Can you elaborate as I'm sure there are other suppliers just as confused as I am what the steps are. I understand that is what NJOY did, but I believe they have a lawyer at the trial pleading as well. Not just a sideline player and letting the first string play the game.

Thank you,

Adam

[Kurt]

If you feel like doing a public analysis of the findings please do so. Most people aren't going too be to familiar with the verbiage/chemistry jargon etc. (a few have already emailed me at my Liberty Stix email or msged me on ECF), and coming from me is going to be thought as biased anyways (even if true, that will likely be the perception on the forum).

Thanks for the consideration if you do choose to analyze it. I have some other testing done but I can't release yet, but would offer the same public analysis opportunity for that as well.

I can do that, sure. But it might get rather technical chemically, and this is a long report that I would like to read over a couple of times. I have some preliminary questions though, that will help me in understanding what you are reporting chemically.

What is the liquid in the cart? A tobacco juice? Unflavored? Some other flavor? And do you know the PG/VG content and nic level?

I'm not familiar with the nature of this ecig in general, but it looks to be based on your website a 3-piece, perhaps with a 306 style atty and cart?

What is the filler material in the cart, and would you describe the cart body itself as very hard, like a 510, or a bit softer? I ask because I think I see some plasticizer compounds being detected, besides the silicone cart compounds you have identified (I think your assignment on those is correct).

And finally, did you fill the cart yourself with liquid or were they filled in China and shipped? If you filled it, was it done right before the test, or had it been sitting in the cart for a while, and if so, how long? If you detail this in the report I didn't see it, so please point me to it.

And to Sun, the great moderator, would my technical description, which may be rather long, even for verbose me, be appropriate in this thread, or should I start one elsewhere, and where would you suggest? This will open several cans of worms, as you might imagine. There is a lot of new information here, and discussion with other chemists here will no doubt follow and be equally as detailed and long. I expect a lot of nerded out fun with folks like DVap, Kin, and several others.

And I hope the other chemists are reading this detailed report too, particularly those that have hands-on experience with mass spectra, as I have some particular questions about a couple of the spectra that only someone who actually does these could answer.

[Territoo]

Wouldn't that turn it into a class-action lawsuit?

Maybe that's what needs to happen. Every ecig vendor in the country suing the FDA, winning because their case isn't any different that SE or NJoy's. Give the FDA another black eye. How can we go about making this happen?

[Adam]

I agree. If something like this doesn't happen collectively then SE & NJOY will eventually own the market so to speak since they are the only ones legally allowed to import at the moment. Or at the very least they would gain a huge market share because they could outlast everyone with a consistent steady supply.

But, our strength as a community has and always will be in our numbers. The more, the better in something like this I believe. Think about it, its like a wolf pack. They hunt in numbers and they all get the rewards. The E-cig community needs to pull together in the lawsuit otherwise the only winners here will be those who joined in.

Keep Vaping,

Adam

[BigJimW]

Adam--technically, what you where told about only the two parties who are in the litigation having the santity of the preliminary injuction against the FDA's embargo is correct, but it cuts against the "spirit" of the ruling. Becasue the ruling is not a final one, it is not binding on the FDA unless it is the parties.

I was afraid of this and hoped this was not the case. While it's not the "spirit" of the law the FDA chooses, it's the LETTER of the law, quite litterally. So for now, the only two entities in the US that can get their shipments will be SE and N/Joy.

Looks to me like we're back to square one.

[JerryRM]

I have lost all respect for them and I have learned that "FDA approved" doesn't mean a thing anymore.

[HounDawg07]

*emerges from lurkdom*

Hi everyone! I've been following this thread for some time, and now have some questions that hopefully you can help me answer. I've been holding off purchasing a PV for some time pending the outcome of this case.

I was afraid of this and hoped this was not the case. While it's not the "spirit" of the law the FDA chooses, it's the LETTER of the law, quite litterally. So for now, the only two entities in the US that can get their shipments will be SE and N/Joy.

So does this mean that I'm relegated to either SE or NJoy for now?

When is the actual trial? If Judge Leon's ruling is upheld, will it then apply to all e-cigarettes and suppliers?

I'm anxious to quit analogs, but was awaiting this ruling so as to avoid putting money into a sinking ship. Now that things are looking up for ecigs, I'm ready to purchase. I just want to make sure I make an informed decision.

[BigJimW]

*emerges from lurkdom*

Hi everyone! I've been following this thread for some time, and now have some questions that hopefully you can help me answer. I've been holding off purchasing a PV for some time pending the outcome of this case.



So does this mean that I'm relegated to either SE or NJoy for now?

When is the actual trial? If Judge Leon's ruling is upheld, will it then apply to all e-cigarettes and suppliers?

I'm anxious to quit analogs, but was awaiting this ruling so as to avoid putting money into a sinking ship. Now that things are looking up for ecigs, I'm ready to purchase. I just want to make sure I make an informed decision.

No, it'll just be status quo until this is clarified. If what Adam says is true (and I have no doubt that it is) then the FDA changed the rules to allow only SE-N/Joy stuff in and whatever else is seized will remain seized.

Maybe I should add c/o Smoking Evrywere in my address just to bust customs balls when I place my next order from China.

[Sun Vaporer]

So, what you're saying is that EVERY e-cig supplier needs to insert themselves into this case or start one of their own?

If they want to protect their interest that would be the way to go Janet.

Wouldn't that turn it into a class-action lawsuit?

This case can not turn into a class-action suit and that is not what the parties wanted

At what cost does one incur to inplead itself into a case? I have no idea if I can have a lawyer submit something and then if the judge accepts it, then I am automatically in the case or if this means my lawyer has to be at all the hearings, etc. I won't know about that until my lawyer reads the ruling and opinion of the judge and gets back with me. Losing $5,000+ is one thing, adding on top of that several grand more to interject into a case is another.

Sun, I guess I don't understand the technicallities of this matter as far as inpleading into a case. Can you elaborate as I'm sure there are other suppliers just as confused as I am what the steps are. I understand that is what NJOY did, but I believe they have a lawyer at the trial pleading as well. Not just a sideline player and letting the first string play the game.

Thank you,

Adam

Adam--You can file your Complaint and pleadings Pro Se. All you really have to do is follow what NJOY did. Once you are in the case, you just coast along with the "big boys" so to speak.


Sun

[RatRacer]

Maybe I should add c/o Smoking Evrywere in my address just to bust customs balls when I place my next order from China.

LOL, now that is creative thinking