Smoking Everywhere V. FDA Daily Docket Sheet Update--APPEAL's COURT ISSUES STAY

[Vaporer]

Sun, thank you for your patience in explaining all this.
It seems the FDA could look at it in more than one way and has elected to go to the extreme side.
If I were a US supplier, I'd be filing against the FDA buring them in claims and pending suits to let them consider the fallout of thier interpretation.
If no consequences of thier actions exist or are looming over thier heads, they have no reason to change thier stance.

[Kurt]

Sun, thank you for your patience in explaining all this.
It seems the FDA could look at it in more than one way and has elected to go to the extreme side.
If I were a US supplier, I'd be filing against the FDA buring them in claims and pending suits to let them consider the fallout of thier interpretation.
If no consequences of thier actions exist or are looming over thier heads, they have no reason to change thier stance.

Vaporer, agreed. Given that the advertising for most PVs is similar to SE, this ruling should be giving other suppliers courage to sue similarly if their shipments are being seized. Is this what the FDA is banking on, that suppliers will not follow suit and just roll over? Of course, the final ruling may well be written to incorporate other suppliers as well. This just seems like the FDA desperately trying to hang on to their control, whether it makes any sense or not, just out of spite. If more suits with already decided results based on this ruling happen, then the FDA is just blatantly wasting tax-payer's money, as well as their own time that could be better focused on why they approve dangerous smoking cessation drugs. This is now looking like a war of spite and revenge rather than having anything at all to do with public health. And we are paying for that.

[Sun Vaporer]

Some (including much of the media) seem to be misconstruing the "ruling". The judge only granted plaintiff's motion for a preliminary injunction, the case still awaits a final ruling.

Is this not correct, Sun?

Correct Randytx--we have a long way to go. First we have an Appeal of this Preliminary Injuction, then we go back to the Disctrict Court where the FDA will file its Answer to SE and NJOY's Complaints. Then we move through discover. Not much of a "trial" to be had here though as it is the interperation of how the applicable law is applied that is what this case is really all about.

We also have a possible full Appeal from the final Judgment. So we have a long way to go.

Keep popping the corn.


Sun

[Sun Vaporer]

Again, no movement by the FDA on the Docket Sheet, so we await. Meanwhile, SE and NJOY enjoy this time to get as much product in the door as possible with the Preliminary Injunction in place.

As we have talked about, this does not do much for other Suppliers.


Sun

[KonaNeil]

Again, no movement by the FDA on the Docket Sheet, so we await. Meanwhile, SE and NJOY enjoy this time to get as much product in the door as possible with the Preliminary Injunction in place.

As we have talked about, this does not do much for other Suppliers.


Sun

They certainly have reason to be hopeful from last week's decision. However, I think this murky time period still gives them a potential cash flow nightmare to work through. If they bring in more product than they can quickly sell and then get hit with a draconian final court decision, they could find themselves needing to ship back tonnage while possibly being constrained from doing so.

Glad to be sitting on the sidelines.

[BigJimW]

Well, it's great for SE-N/Joy, but sucks for the rest of us. For all other manufactuers/distributors, they still sell these:



Looks like we're not out of the woods. So much for this "victory"

I urge other manufacturers/distributors to file suit against the FDA. It's the only way it's going to work.

[deewal]

This just seems like the FDA desperately trying to hang on to their control, whether it makes any sense or not, just out of spite. If more suits with already decided results based on this ruling happen, then the FDA is just blatantly wasting tax-payer's money, as well as their own time that could be better focused on why they approve dangerous smoking cessation drugs. This is now looking like a war of spite and revenge rather than having anything at all to do with public health. And we are paying for that.

That's 'cause their reading everything we write.

[Adam]

I started posting in the Suppliers Private forum about trying to gather a group of US Suppliers to join together in a group Motion to Intervene. I talked to a lawyer who said it would be very costly to do it alone. It is a simple motion, however there are other filings that go along with it and for one supplier to do it is cost prohibitive. However, as he advised, having a group of suppliers filing a motion to Intervene as a group spreads the cost out and would be a good idea.

When I posted that to gage interest in the Private Suppliers forum, The moderators removed my status from "Sponsored Supplier" to "Supplier - Offline" and therefor can't go back to the private forum. It appears that I was on to something that could have benefited us all had it gained momentum may have turned into something great. At the start I had three suppliers interested within a hour, then haven't been able to go back and see how many others were interested.

I am trying to work it out with Rolygate and SmokeyJoe though, so please be patient. I have a very long thread written, but waiting to post it there with a PM to all suppliers asking for a call to action. As of right now, I am not a supplier according to the forum.

I believe that any supplier who takes there business seriously would be interested in joining the group Motion to Intervene, however time will tell. I for one want to get back into the game and when the FDA agent hung up on me, that struck a nerve to go after them even more than before. I am a reasonable and fair person and to be treated like crap when I was very calm and polite is just not right. Add to that the crap they are pulling, however legal it may be, just goes against the judges opinion and isn't fair. Its time for all of us Suppliers to put our money where our mouth is and get into the game instead of watching it from the sidelines.

So, I ask everyone to contact your supplier of choice and tell them to get in the game and expect a PM from me on Monday to get information on joining a group motion to Intervene.

Keep Vaping,

Adam

[Vaporer]

Adam,
It would be good to find out how much its going to cost so you can post the filing total and manufacturers/suppliers will know what the cost will be if say its divided by 10.
It could be chancy to wait on a final ruling as Sun stated it may just include SE & Njoy.
That would mean a new suit, referencing the decision and surely would be more costly and time consuming. Seems it would be cheaper to tag along now while its open and decided.
That's how the FDA appearently is looking at it now if they are holding shipments from other suppliers & manufacturers.
As the previous posts Kurt and I were discussing, this is a spite/revenge thing from the FDA.
It does leave for now SE & Njoy the possibility to corner the market. I like my US suppliers. It may cost a bit more, but these are my fast shipping QC people and I'd prefer not to lose them.
I've heard of the sig problem before. Something abt keeping suppliers from spamming private areas. It's kinda funny as I see people, maybe a spouse, posting everywhere and has the name and clickable link in the sig line.

Kristins & Vocalek CASAA's posting on Digg abt the court ruling, as of last night, only had 52 Diggs after being up for days. Seems more people like to worry and complain than take the time (5 mins to sign up for free) and help get the word out.
Here is the link again:
CASAA Applauds Electronic Cigarette Ruling - Associated Cont

[DC2]

I really hope you guys (suppliers) get together and implead yourselves into the case.
But don't you have to actually have shipments currently under seizure to be able to do so?