Smoking Everywhere V. FDA Daily Docket Sheet Update--APPEAL's COURT ISSUES STAY

[catwoman19]

Wow, pass the popcorn someone. Too bad we not only have to fight the FDA, ASH, Bigp and BigT, now we have to fight against an overpriced company that may be an agent in our undoing. I agree with bigJ as usual, Totally Wicked, close up shop.
Now back to the main feature, popcorn please

[JerryRM]

Here's the popcorn, come and get it, it's going to be a l-o-n-g show!!

[ChipCurtis]

That being said, TW can do as it pleases. I don't believe they will have any impact on what's happening here in the US. The infighting within the vap'n community is also not productive. What is productive is vap'n away, educating each individual that asks about our new hobby and being as pleased with our selves for giving up tobacco as we can.

Vap'n ain't going away. They tried it with prohabition about alcohol and they will be no more effective with vap'n. Live your live with fun and joy, support our advocacy groups and keep BigJim's forum handy.

Like anybody else here, I surely don't want to see infighting amongst ourselves. We have enough to deal with. I am totally with the vaping community and dedicated to fighting in the trenches for "we the vapers" at almost any level. I've given a lot of thought to the stocking-up mentality and finding ways to obtain juice in a future prohobition environment. I'd be willing to join up with those underground forces if this is what it comes to.

On the legal up-and-up front, however (and this probably concerns distributors more than simply consumers of the PV), you can't just use "indignity against a corrupt system" as your ammunition against those forces. You have to play legal hardball, be legally consistent, and all of that. I'm just pointing out that there's some consensus on this board about the probable flaw in TW's marketing strategy, that's all.

[Bill Godshall]

Wow! 500 pages and 5000 postings on this thread, and the SE v FDA case appears to still be in its infancy.

I too take issue with Jim's assertion. Regulatory agencies are required to consider each company's marketing claims individually, not by regulating Company A based upon Company Bs marketing claims.

[Sun Vaporer]

There was a few procedural manuvers today on the Docket, but nothing of relevance.
　
Sun

[exogenesis]

Please think more before beating up on Totally Wicked.
....

　
Good post Mister, I'm glad you did that rather than me, I wouldn't have been as polite (by a long way).
　
Bashing high quality suppliers (I'd say TW certainly has the highest quality UK juice)
from within the community is crazy, especially at the current time.
　

Hindsight is a fantastic thing BigJ, glad you feel you've got a soapbox to stand on using that
(nothing ulterior there I hope? - if there is, you're not helping).
　
Probably the advertising & 'image' choice made some while ago by TW (devil logo, 'wicked' etc)
would be different if it was done now ..... with the extra hindsight.

Personally I don't see it as trying to attract young buyers,
to me it's just a slighty odd brand image, that I guess seemed like a good idea at the time.
　

Trying to get as much seperation between smoking and vaping was the 'current best knowledge'
at the time (& possibly still is!), even now calling it E-NI rather than e-cig seems not so bad an idea.

It's the semantics of the descriptions that's gone - crazy,
the UK/USA law/regulation can easily get/bend an interpretion of intent
that wasn't actually meant originally by the description (whatever name is used).
　
So currently it turns out the SE-NJOY/FDA test hinges on 'recreational use' rather than 'medical use',
it's sort of depressing to see this being so 'wrung out' as a method of setting the legality in stone,
the harm-reduction facts don't count as much it seems.

But in the long run - who knows?, might be only those suppliers that changed
from 'e-cigarette' named products that actually surivive,
or some other aspect we probably haven't even thought of yet.
　
　
　
　
　
　
　

[BigJimW]

That being said, TW can do as it pleases. I don't believe they will have any impact on what's happening here in the US. The infighting within the vap'n community is also not productive. What is productive is vap'n away, educating each individual that asks about our new hobby and being as pleased with our selves for giving up tobacco as we can.

I don't care too much about their website design, but it's the marketing they are doing that is alarming. The belief that "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" does not apply to international precedents. What happens in the UK could and will have a direct impact on the US (since TW also sells in the US) and whatever the FDA says is taken as gospel by everyone on the planet. So basically whatever happens there will have a direct impact here.

All the money and time spent proving these things are tobacco products could just end up going into the garbage because of a rogue distributor tooting a drug delivery device. Out of all the things that a distributor MAY do (market to kids, say that they are healthy, etc) is nothing compared to a manufacturer making a drug delivery pitch.

Lots of damage can be done.

[beingbekah]

I agree with you BigJim, but I also think that people who are saying that now is the time to stand together have a good point. We are, after all, all in this together.

[BigJimW]

I too take issue with Jim's assertion. Regulatory agencies are required to consider each company's marketing claims individually, not by regulating Company A based upon Company Bs marketing claims.

Normally that would be the case, but we're dealing with the FDA who is attempting to paint the entire e-cig industry in a broad brush (being a drug delivery device). They're not arguing on a company by company basis like sending a complaint to the manufacturer of Lucky Charms for making health claims, and not bother other manufacturers of cereals not making these claims. We're dealing with an agency that is not looking at the health claims made by one manufacturer. They're viewing it as everyone is guilty. Having a distributor making claims that the FDA will want to hear will screw all manufacturers and distributors, and could be the end of vaping as we know it.

This case is fragile enough, we don't need a rogue distributor giving the FDA any ammo for their arsenal.

[Mac]

I have been against calling these things ANYTHING besides a cigarette from the jump>> The truth about vaporizers