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Thread: UCSF bans e-cigarette use where smoking is banned

  1. #21
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    BTW – Feel free to just Slam this all to Heck.

    I’m not going to reply because Very Few Understand what I am Saying anyway.

    Funny in a Way. What good is a Thread when All we do is Sit Around and Agree with it.

    Kinda Tan but then again, That Just Me.

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    The bad thing about this ban is not that employees who vape are inconvenienced (even though I do consider it an unfair and unnecessary inconvenience). The bad thing is that student who might otherwise have switched to vaping and discontinued cigarette smoking are being given the wrong message, and have less incentive now to make the switch. IMO it's a short-sighted policy that doesn't take into account the welfare of student smokers.

    BTW I work at a non-smoking campus (not UCSF). Smoking is not allowed anywhere on campus including parking lots and green spaces. It is now 2 years since the ban was instituted. People were fairly cooperative at first but the ban is now commonly openly ignored. It is a 10 minute drive just to leave campus so trying to get away for a smoke break can be extremely challenging :/.

    I do vape at work (only inside my office with the door shut and the window cracked). I'll never stop, even if they decide to ban the e-cig. It'll be interesting to see what happens along the lines of campus bans since a medical researcher at my school authored one of the positive medical studies on PV safety.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoiDman View Post
    You know whatÖ
    [SNIP]
    Why isnít anything getting done. In government? Or anything for that matter Anymore?

    Ya know why Sunshine?

    Because no one can compromise anymore. Itís all about the ALL for the Left or ALL for the right.

    [SNIP]
    Me. I would rather engage in Compromise and give Them a Small Portion of what "They" want for a Large Portion of what "I" want. Let them have some Vaping Bans. Vapers need Boundaries Anyway. Big Time Boundaries. 24-7 Isn't Normal.

    But then when the Big Issues come up Like Taxation we can look Cooperative and Not Juvenilia and Adversarial like we do now. Itís kinda a Carrot or the Stick Approach.
    [SNIP]

    You want something?

    Great. Well here is how the Universe works. Youíre going to have to give up something to Get It. So give them a few bans and be an Adult about it.

    And then Barter for something in Return. Remember: You Canít Have Everything.
    [SNIP]
    That all sounds very logical. Very grown up. The problem is that "compromise" is what got us into this mess in the first place. Have you ever heard the saying, "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile"?

    The antis don't need to have the entire world made smoke-free in order to protect the health of non-smokers. They could have stopped after they got the smokers out of the areas where bystanders would be exposed, but that was not the master plan.

    The antis who want to eradicate all use of tobacco and nicotine from the face of the earth knew that if they demanded to have smoking prohibited everywhere, there would be shouted (or laughed) out of the room. So they decided to do the "Frog in the pot of water" trick.

    If you drop a frog into a pot of boiling water, it will jump right back out. But if you put it into a pot of nice tepid water, it will sit tight. It will continue to sit tight while you increase the temperature, little by little, until eventually the frog's goose is cooked (so-to-speak).

    The first version of the Clean Air Acts back in the early 1980s called for a ban on smoking in the common areas of public buildings. Smoking would still be permitted in private offices, private apartments, private rooms, private cars, so smokers had a place to retreat to. They quietly compromised.

    The next version of the laws called for the entire building to be smoke free, except for a separate smoking room with separate ventilation. Smokers still had a place to retreat to, so they quietly compromised.

    Next, the antis' publicity claimed that there was leakage from these designated smoking rooms that was causing people to drop dead on the spot of heart attacks and strokes or develop huge disfiguring tumors due to second-hand smoke exposure (OK, OK. I'm exaggerating about what they claimed, but not by much!). So the smokers were sent outside, but provided with shelters to provide shade and shelter from the wind and rain. They still had a place to retreat to, so they quietly compromised.

    Next....

    I could go on and on, but by now you should get the picture. This did not "just happen." It was part of a carefully crafted plan: The Godber Blueprint.

    Rampant Antismoking Signifies Grave Danger

    So you go right ahead as an individual, and surrender unconditionally. You can call it "compromise" if it makes you feel better. But you will not get anything in return from them...except empty promises. You might get temporary appeasement of some type. But it won't last.

    As for me, I intend to fight. Enough is enough.

    What's next? Should we all be forced to go around with a big red "S" on our chests? This would warn others to keep their distance to avoid exposure to 666th-hand smoke from our clothing.

    I have been using an e-cigarette daily for nearly three years. In all that time, my use of the devices has not caused even a minor illness on the part of any bystander. I see no reason why I should meekly accept being punished for a crime I have not committed.

    You say, "Vapers need Boundaries Anyway. Big Time Boundaries. 24-7 Isn't Normal." Thanks, Mom.

    Who are you to say what is normal or not normal for another person?

    Why should you (or anyone else) be given the power to dictate where everyone's Boundary lines should be drawn?
    sherid, yvilla, CJsKee and 8 others like this.


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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoiDman View Post
    BTW – Feel free to just Slam this all to Heck.
    I don't see anyone slamming you, just presenting opinions that differ strongly from yours.
    That, of course, feels like slamming but really isn't.

    Sort of like how vaping feels like smoking, but really isn't.

    I’m not going to reply because Very Few Understand what I am Saying anyway.
    I fully understand what you said, and I suspect almost all of us understand what you said.
    The only thing is, we simply do not agree with it.

    In fact, I'm sure some of us vehemently disagree with it.
    But that is not slamming you either.


    I for one appreciate you taking the time to state your position.
    It certainly provides something to think about.

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    I was pleasantly surprised Not to wake up to an Inbox full of Flame. I know my opinion on some vaping bans isn’t going to be received well here. But it is how I feel.

    I just don’t see any good way to let Vaper’s have some of the things that they want Without Compromising with Anti-Vaper’s and giving them some of the things they want also.

    I would much rather see the Hard Work , Time and Money that Pro-Vaping groups expend placed on Making Deals with Policy Makers verses a perceived attitude of we will Fight to Last Man for Vapers so they can vape When Ever and Where Ever they chose.

    Face it. Vaping as we know it Today is Changing. The Taxation is starting as are more Bans.

    You can’t stop change. But by working together instead of “Line in the Sand” Fighting over issues, perhaps Both sides can get Some of the things they want.

    BTW – It really isn’t an “Give an Inch and They Take a Mile” thing. If there is No Compromises or Deals that can be Struck with Policy Makers, they’re going to take the Mile Anyway. I say Trade Horses with them and Try to Get Something out of it for your side.

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    There is no compromise with anti-smokers. Reread Vocalek's post. Anti-smokers are vile, unyielding tyrants, and those of us who oppose your stance do so because we have watched them at work for way too long. We are no longer cooperating with unreasonable and vengeful people.
    CJsKee, scinsc and Turnip like this.
    "Deja Moo : The feeling youíve heard this bull before !"

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    Compromise might work in the land of politics. Just about zero of any of the bills that have been introduced were the idea of a politician. There is a strong well-organized, well-funded group of groups behind the introduction of these bills.

    The people leading the charge fall into one of two categories: 1) Zealots who firmly believe that there is no difference between nicotine addiction and addiction to street drugs that make people violent and crazy, and 2) those who are financially dedicated to preserving the profits of the pharmaceutical companies that make the products you have probably spent hundreds, if not thousands of dollars on, without being able to quit smoking.

    They have plenty of drug-company money to spread lies, too. http://www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/ca...n-funding.html

    They love the idea that people use these drugs to quit for a while, and then relapse (which actually is good for them because they also receive money from tobacco companies through the Master Settlement agreement), and then use their drugs again. They really don't want you to find a way to stop smoking permanently! That would stop the gravy train.

    They are masters of propaganda techniques.

    Read the Amicus brief signed on to by organizations that claim they want to help smokers quit.

    The District Courtís injunction would hinder efforts to reduce the mortality
    and morbidity associated with tobacco use and harm the public health ......7...

    a. The District Courtís injunction would allow the marketing of
    potentially dangerous and ineffective nicotine products ......................7...

    b. The District Courtís injunction would likely lead to greater nicotine
    use and, eventually, to tobacco use among children ..........................1..1...

    c. The District Courtís decision would discourage tobacco users from
    using FDA-approved smoking cessation products to help them quit ..1..2.

    d. The District Courtís injunction would undermine the incentive to
    develop new, better alternative nicotine products ...............................1..3..
    http://www.casaa.org/files/ALA_brief_ct._app..pdf

    And that's just the table of contents!!!

    Indoor use bans are just the tip of the iceberg. The ANTZ are getting legislation introduced to stamp out e-cigs every way they can think of, from imposing taxes of 70% of wholesale to outlawing home delivery of e-cig products. These are just a stepping stone to getting all sales, everywhere, banned.
    CJsKee and Turnip like this.


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    Quote Originally Posted by littlehart View Post
    You can get around the wording of that ban...It isn't a lighted pipe, cigar, or cigarette and you can say you didn't inhale
    Except for the fact that they used the term "heated" Cigar, Pipe, or Cigarette in their definition.

    And I only smoked 6 a day for two years before that. Down from 2 PAD!

    Provari and Sigelei Zmax V3 ... my favorite vapes.

  9. #29
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    I think that the ecig has miffed the powers that be so much that they are changing the terminology to exclude them, too. If it looks like a duck ...

    I can see the problems with seeing a cloud of vapor, calling security, and waiting, just to find out that it's a personal vaporizer. Banning them all is an easier proposition than pointing and saying, "You can use yours, but YOU have to put yours out!"

    And I only smoked 6 a day for two years before that. Down from 2 PAD!

    Provari and Sigelei Zmax V3 ... my favorite vapes.

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    Funny, we have not had any problems like that in Virginia, where the Attorney General ruled that e-cigarettes are not included in the statewide smoking ban. I use my e-cig at the bowling alley, and nobody even gives me a second look now. Back when they gave me a first look, it was to find out what I was using and where they (or a friend of theirs they wanted to help) could buy one. People quickly get used to the idea. Really.


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