Editor of journal Tobacco Control refuses to discuss the issues - Page 3
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kristin View Post
    Folks, PLEASE start reevaluating your long-held beliefs about "Big Tobacco." Think about it - everything you still think of as "known facts" was told to us by the same ANTZ who are now lying about e-cigarettes and low-risk smokeless tobacco products! Don't you think that at least makes those "known facts" worthy of review and doubt? Do you think they just lie about e-cigarettes (or just need to be "convinced") and everything they told us about Big Tobacco was not warped, twisted or downright lies but absolute truth? They really just learned how to lie so skillfully since e-cigarettes came on the market? The truth is that much of what we think we know about "Big Tobacco," smokeless tobacco, smoking and the benevolent mantle taken on by the ANTZ the isn't "truth" at all.
    Well, we all know the risks of second-hand smoke have been exaggerated to the point of being completely absurd now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC2 View Post
    Well, we all know the risks of second-hand smoke have been exaggerated to the point of being completely absurd now.
    That's one! But there are a lot more lies, misdirection, huge exaggerations or statements based on pure junk science like:
    - Smoke-free tobacco is not a safe alternative to smoking.
    - Switching from smoking to smoke-free is just exchanging lung cancer for oral cancer.
    - Smoke-free tobacco causes oral cancer, pancreatic cancer and heart disease.
    - Smoking bans reduce adult smoking rates.
    - Tobacco tax increases reduce smoking rates.
    - Smoking bans reduce heart attacks.
    - Just a whiff of second-hand smoke can cause a heart attack or stroke.
    - Nicotine is as or more addictive than her-oin.
    - Tobacco companies added chemicals that made cigarettes "more addictive."
    - Smoke-free tobacco is a gateway to smoking.
    - Dual users (smokeless and smoking) are more addicted and at greater risk than smoking alone.
    - 443,000 smokers die from smoking-related diseases every year.
    - 49,000 non-smokers die from second-hand smoke every year.
    - Cigarettes contain 4,000 toxic chemicals and 65 carcinogens.
    - Flavored cigarettes were created by Big Tobacco as a way to addict youth.
    - Nicotine causes heart disease.
    - Chantix is safe and effective.
    - NRT is safe and effective.
    Last edited by kristin; 02-06-2013 at 06:38 PM.
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    I would assume the FDA is aware of this list of lies and junk science.
    They couldn't care less. But they are aware of the truth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kristin View Post
    That's one! But there are a lot more lies, misdirection, huge exaggerations or statements based on pure junk science like:
    - Smoke-free tobacco is not a safe alternative to smoking.
    - Switching from smoking to smoke-free is just exchanging lung cancer for oral cancer.
    - Smoke-free tobacco causes oral cancer, pancreatic cancer and heart disease.
    - Smoking bans reduce adult smoking rates.
    - Tobacco tax increases reduce smoking rates.
    - Smoking bans reduce heart attacks.
    - Just a whiff of second-hand smoke can cause a heart attack or stroke.
    - Nicotine is as or more addictive than her-oin.
    - Tobacco companies added chemicals that made cigarettes "more addictive."
    - Smoke-free tobacco is a gateway to smoking.
    - Dual users (smokeless and smoking) are more addicted and at greater risk than smoking alone.
    - 443,000 smokers die from smoking-related diseases every year.
    - 49,000 non-smokers die from second-hand smoke every year.
    - Cigarettes contain 4,000 toxic chemicals and 65 carcinogens.
    - Flavored cigarettes were created by Big Tobacco as a way to addict youth.
    - Nicotine causes heart disease.
    - Chantix is safe and effective.
    - NRT is safe and effective.
    Not that I doubt you at all Kristin (you should know I don't, anyway ), but if I use these statements in a conversation with someone, and they want to know the source, are the sources linked on CASAA.org inclusive of these? TIA
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    Quote Originally Posted by mssam View Post

    Now, considering the FDA is usually a marionette puppet for BT and research is funded by BT; the consumer will not be offered a third choice if BT remains a major stakeholder imo.
    Really .. ?? Link Please ..
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonicdsl View Post
    Not that I doubt you at all Kristin (you should know I don't, anyway ), but if I use these statements in a conversation with someone, and they want to know the source, are the sources linked on CASAA.org inclusive of these? TIA
    No, you'd have to do a lot of reading to find the truth - but it's out there. Most of these claims have been debunked by Dr. Phillips, Brad Rodu, Paul Bergen, Joel Nitzkin, Dr. Siegel etc., and the rest are either common sense that has contrary supporting evidence or determined by much research on the web & reading a few books about the ANTZ tactics.

    I have a CASAA board meeting tonight, but if I get a chance I'll find links that show how they are all false or misleading in some way. Many, I'm sure, you know have been clearly debunked in discussions on this forum (ie. smokeless risks compared to smoking, Chantix/NRT is safe and effective, nicotine is more addictive than her-ion/causes heart disease.)

    Something that is common sense would be "Cigarettes contain 4,000 toxic chemicals and 65 carcinogens." We know how ANTZ exaggerate the "toxic chemicals and carcinogens" in e-cigarettes - have you ever wondered at what levels the toxic chemicals and carcinogens are in real cigarettes? Look it up.

    Or "443,000 smokers die from smoking-related diseases every year." Ever notice that number hasn't changed since 2004, in spite of decreasing smoking rates and medical advancements? Ever wonder how they calculated that number? If people think it's based on actual known deaths (real people) and conclusive evidence that the smoking caused the death (able to rule out other factors), they'd be wrong. And the evidence for second-hand smoke deaths is even more shaky, as not only is it essentially an educated wild guess, it's based on non-smokers who lived over 30 years with a smoker, NOT SHS exposure in public for a few hours. Yet they use those deaths to justify smoking bans even outdoors now.

    It's amazing the facts you can find when you stop taking the ANTZ's word for it. Just most people never bother to look beyond the headlines (including doctors.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by kristin View Post
    It's amazing the facts you can find when you stop taking the ANTZ's word for it.
    Just most people never bother to look beyond the headlines (including doctors.)
    Truer words were never spoken !!
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    Just one correction, Kristin. In order to complete their demonization of tobacco companies and products, they changed

    - 443,000 smokers die from smoking-related diseases every year.

    to
    -- 443,000 tobacco-related deaths

    Implying that the number estimates include deaths from other type of tobacco products, which isn't true.
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    Thank you Kristin, you saved me a lot of tying to get my point across. Yes, BT lied much the same as BP has lied on numerous occasions about products that went bad.

    However, I can't get past the lies that have been perpetuated by the entire ANTZ world for decades about smokeless tobacco products when the decided to move their efforts beyond controlling smoking. Most smokeless tobacco products are significantly safer than cigarettes but the ANTZ used propaganda to make us believe were at least as bad, if not worse, than smoking. I can not forgive them for that any more than some can not forgive the tobacco industry.

    Today we have numerous tobacco and nicotine products that are >95% safer than smoking but the rhetoric from the ANTZ doesn't change, quit or die. Who do we place the death toll on today? I know who I do, because I could have and would have looked for viable alternatives decades ago had I been told the truth. Instead of wasting money on BP's snake oil over and over again, I could have been done with cigarettes long before I finally found tobacco products that allowed me to quit.
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    Or "443,000 smokers die from smoking-related diseases every year." Ever notice that number hasn't changed since 2004, in spite of decreasing smoking rates and medical advancements?
    Easy, someone had fun coming up with that number 6662

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