Minors and Vaping...bad news

[VapingRulz]

Cigarettes are sold in every corner convenience store. Beer-wine-liquor are sold in grocery stores in many states. All are legal products. Vendors have to show common sense and obey the laws concerning sales to minors. There is absolutely no reason - or legal basis - to subject e-cigarettes to more stringent laws than those that currently exist for other over-18 legal products.

There is also no reason to view e-cigarettes primarily as a threat to our youth instead of a godsend for current smokers who are trying to kick deadly analogs. The likelihood that a non-smoking teen is going to decide to shell out $50+ to try e-cigarettes is MUCH, MUCH lower than the likelihood that s/he will buy a pack of $6 analogs from the local convenience store. (And yes, many do sell to minors.) It's also a lot easier to steal a pack of mom or dad's analogs without it being noticed, than it is to filch an e-cig.

This is not about the children or about the health of smokers - past, present or future. That's a red herring. It's all about tax revenues and Big Tobacco with their powerful DC lobbyists. As always, it pays to follow the money.

If I choose to blow [harmless] vapor out of my mouth and nose, why on earth is that anyone's business? Why should it matter if they don't like to see me do it - or they don't approve of vaping? Why should they be able to tell me I can't do it because it makes them uncomfortable? Screw them. There's plenty of things that people do that I don't like or approve of but I understand that it's none of my freaking business, so I keep my opinions to myself.

We have really become a nation of busybodies and buttinsky's. What a bunch of old ladies.

[ladyraj]

PlanetScribbles, I agree there is a continuum of risks that individuals should weigh as to what is an acceptable level of risk....or an unacceptable one. However, if a majority of individuals have no experience with a certain product, they often rely on the media to portray the risk association with products. Thus, as in your example with MacLaren strollers....how many parents will buy their product now?

How many vaporers have had family members, friends, and complete strangers cite the anti-freeze ingredient in the cartridges that vaporers partake of?

We have grown to be experts on the topic of our PVs but the majority of the public are not that well informed. If the argument against PVs is framed as an inducement to minors to adopt an alternative smoking habit, it upsurps the parental covenant to protect said minor. Parents simply do not like their authority being flouted in this manner. Yes, some parents view the PV as safer than cigarettes...but most prefer their precious children not develop ANY habits that might harm their precious buttocks.

[smokum]

I find it quite strange that everyone appears to consider the two companies mentioned as the bad guys here in this particular situation.

I certainly don't agree with their marketing strategies nor claims, however, the kiosk's are NOT employee's of those companies.

Those who chose to operate a kiosk are simply wholesalers or distributors of a product from a company that has developed and offers kiosk style set-ups, hardware, and marketing products.

It by no means extends any corporate support beyond that of someone who wishes to start up as an online retailer, nor is it a "paycheck" as an employee or "commissions" as a salesman or representative. THIS IS A BUSINESS set up by the individual looking to make money.... plain and simple.

If any of the other major manufacturers, distributors, or suppliers, wanted to develop such a "marketing outlet", it wouldn't be any different with the end result.

People with little scruples and simply wanting to make a buck would do the same, regardless of the product they would be selling.

Its those individuals running the kiosks or online sales that should receive the bad rap exclusively, not the parent companies themselves.

The parent companies should be attacked for unverified claims, and the lack of scientific data to back up those claims being made publicly, and that is all.

More food for thought........ and feel free to correct me should I some how be improperly informed on any of my take on things.

VapeOn,
Greg

[PlanetScribbles]

if a majority of individuals have no experience with a certain product, they often rely on the media to portray the risk association with products. Thus, as in your example with MacLaren strollers....how many parents will buy their product now?

Exactly. But, again, it doesn't mean that Maclaren product is dangerous at all. It's a result of uninformed, knee-jerk media hype.

most [parents] prefer their precious children not develop ANY habits that might harm their precious buttocks.

In an ideal world, this would be achievable. In the real world, it's fantasy. Kids won't be told that they "can't" do something. In fact, most will go out and darned well do it just to show that they can. It's installed within the rebellious nature of teens.
The best way to stop minors from smoking would be to remove tobacco products from the shelves. But therin lies the rub, and the whole reason why e-cigs are being persecuted whilst tobacco sales are frowned upon, but 'tolerated', ... the enormous tax revenue that tobacco products generate.

[ladyraj]

You're right PlanetScribbles...the abstinence parents and society preach do not work but that doesn't alter their stance and agreed upon efforts. Call it Club Pink Elephant...the concensus is to not talk about it and hope it goes away. Some work to supply pretty curtains to block the view of the "undesired" presence or dress it up in more palatable attire....and it works, for some.

Removing tobacco products from the shelves is a tactic I could never agree with. Business owners have a right to arrange their wares any way they choose. If the sight of a product is so overwhelming that it overcomes individual restraint or willpower...the problem lies with the individual.

If I were to remove all females from my Grandson's view...he would still find a way to possibly impregnate one. Better to teach him of choices and consequences rather than pretend boys don't get the urge to dip their sticks.

[ladyraj]

Respectfully, when e-cigs generate a billion or more of sales in this Country...the tax aspect might apply. Until then, the charitable alphabet groups with their lobby efforts are the current enemy in my opinion. If e-cigs can generate taxes to aid our ailing economy...the legislators will be more than willing to overcome the lobby influence. If e-cigs means jobs...and lots of them, those suppliers/manufacturers will meet very little resistance.

These alphabet groups could care less if vaping is safer because the act of simulated smoking is too close to actual smoking for their comfort. It is the act of smoking they want to make abnormal.

The big tobacco companies were the first to read the handwriting on the wall and each had put their own version of an e-cig on the market....it didn't sell. Why, because the need for an alternative wasn't that great until more and more bans and regulation were enacted across this land. Vaporers are now relegated to the smoking population band from whence they came. There is no escape from Nanny.

[gooney0]

TaketheRedPill,

Great post (last page). I agree and don't think I could add to it.

-Gooney0

[PlanetScribbles]

I often ask, if you used PVs to get off analogs, what will you use to get off PVs?

TaketheRedPill,

Great post (last page). I agree and don't think I could add to it.

-Gooney0

Agree with that Gooney0. The chicken and egg scenario made me chuckle, but unfortunately PM doesn't make cigarettes in 0mg, 2mg, 4mg, 6mg etc, varieties. We vapers get that luxury, and the ability to ween ourselves off nic one step at a time

[mcl5000]

I don't think that e-cig kiosks should be banned in malls, but I do think that handing out samples to random people walking by should be.

I'll refer to my previous "7-11 guy doesn't smoke cigarettes and give out samples" example. It doesn't matter what the motive is behind an e-cig kiosk worker having people try his product. All that matters is that you don't give out samples of an addictive drug in the middle of the mall. If the worker wants to demo it himself, that's fine I guess, but having other people try it shouldn't be allowed.

This is a better example, I guess. Pretend I started up my own chewing tobacco company. I decide that selling it in malls is a good way to make money. I set up a stand right next to SE. As people walk by, I shove some dip in their lower lip.

This is EXACTLY the same as someone at a kiosk giving out samples of their e-cig, but it seems much worse...right? Why?

They're both addictive. They're both legal to be purchased by people over 18. I think most e-cig users have some idea that vaping is the resurrection of Christ, when in reality, most people think it's just as bad a habit as smoking cigarettes or dipping.

Don't get me wrong; I think vaping is amazing. It's just not something that can be treated differently than other age-controlled drugs, whether we think it's great or not.

[Safira]

OK feel free to bash the hell out of me but I have to give a different opinion. It sounds like they gave the teens zero nic right? I really don't want to see kids vaping these things, or smoking analogs at all, but at what age did most of us start smoking anyway.

I'm not trying to say it's OK, but it might be a way for them to be social and not be addicted to nicotine. Kind of like the kid who doesn't really drink, he'll just hold the beer in his hand at a party and not drink it. (I was that kid, so we are out there) Have we been able to solve the teen drinking problem? No, but it's a suggestion I would give my kids when they go off to college and don't know how to handle weird situations like that.

My nephew doesn't smoke at all. When he was 16 he'd go with his father and "smoke" a cigar. I never really saw him taking a good hit like my brother, it was just a way for them to get together and talk about the day. He'd sit and talk with his father about stuff, the thing would go out. He'd re-light it cough up a storm and roll it around in his hands as he'd be talking about what was going on in his life.

I'm just saying 10 yrs from now if these things get a chance to take off, would you rather have your 16 yr old smoke cigs, or "herbs" or just vape some flavored zero nic and no one around them would know the difference. (or even care)

In a perfect world our perfect little angels wouldn't have to deal with these kinds of social situations, but they do and sometimes you need to learn how to go with the flow.