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Thread: Colorado Senate Bill 14-018 to ban the sale, transfer or offer to sell nicotine products, including empty e-cigs, without seeing ID

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    Registered Supplier Bkag's Avatar
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    Default Colorado Senate Bill 14-018 to ban the sale, transfer or offer to sell nicotine products, including empty e-cigs, without seeing ID

    http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/cli...ile=018_01.pdf

    The interpretation I have gotten from a member of the House is that this would effectively ban online sales in Colorado.

    Some "highlights" for you guys

    Under current law, it is illegal to furnish tobacco products to
    persons under 18 years of age. Section 1 of the bill expands the
    prohibition to include all nicotine products.

    18-13-121. Furnishing nicotine products to minors. (1) (a) A person shall not give, sell, distribute, DISPENSE, or offer for sale A NICOTINE PRODUCT to any person who is under eighteen years of age.

    Before GIVING, selling, DISTRIBUTING, DISPENSING, OR OFFERING TO SELL to any AN individual any cigarette or tobacco NICOTINE product, a person shall request from the individual and examine a government-issued photographic identification that establishes that the individual is eighteen years of age or older; except that, in face-to-face transactions, this requirement shall be IS waived if the individual appears older than thirty years of age

    (5) (a) As used in this section, "tobacco "NICOTINE product" means: (I) Any A product that contains nicotine or tobacco or is derived from tobacco and is intended to be ingested or inhaled by or applied to the skin of an individual; or (II) Any AN electronic device that can be used to deliver nicotine to the person inhaling from the device, including but not limited to an electronic cigarette, cigar, cigarillo, or pipe
    Last edited by Bkag; 01-15-2014 at 06:23 AM.
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    This seems reasonable except the "OFFERING TO SELL". It seems to me that offering to and actually selling something are really very different. I can't see how OFFERING could harm a minor. That's weird wording.
    I don't see any problem with carding customers the same way folks get carded for buying tobacco...

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    Registered Supplier Bkag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by endGame View Post
    This seems reasonable except the "OFFERING TO SELL". It seems to me that offering to and actually selling something are really very different. I can't see how OFFERING could harm a minor. That's weird wording.
    I don't see any problem with carding customers the same way folks get carded for buying tobacco...
    I agree with that. The interpretation I have gotten from a member of the legislature is that, effectively, all online sales of e-cigarettes with or without nicotine will not be allowed to be sold to or from Colorado due to the fact that an ID cannot be checked before "offering to sell" the product
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    Ultra Member ECF Veteran Jman8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bkag View Post
    http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/cli...ile=018_01.pdf

    The interpretation I have gotten from a member of the House is that this would effectively ban online sales in Colorado.

    Some "highlights" for you guys

    Under current law, it is illegal to furnish tobacco products to
    persons under 18 years of age. Section 1 of the bill expands the
    prohibition to include all nicotine products.

    18-13-121. Furnishing nicotine products to minors. (1) (a) A person shall not give, sell, distribute, DISPENSE, or offer for sale A NICOTINE PRODUCT to any person who is under eighteen years of age.

    Before GIVING, selling, DISTRIBUTING, DISPENSING, OR OFFERING TO SELL to any AN individual any cigarette or tobacco NICOTINE product, a person shall request from the individual and examine a government-issued photographic identification that establishes that the individual is eighteen years of age or older; except that, in face-to-face transactions, this requirement shall be IS waived if the individual appears older than thirty years of age

    (5) (a) As used in this section, "tobacco "NICOTINE product" means: (I) Any A product that contains nicotine or tobacco or is derived from tobacco and is intended to be ingested or inhaled by or applied to the skin of an individual; or (II) Any AN electronic device that can be used to deliver nicotine to the person inhaling from the device, including but not limited to an electronic cigarette, cigar, cigarillo, or pipe
    Addressing the bolded part.

    If vendor obtains this license, but it is a fake ID, and vendor sells to the person, who is at fault? I'm thinking the person who presented the fake, no?

    So, if that is allowed, then why not have it that for out of state vendors choosing to sell online, this must be part of the transaction? I realize I'm presenting this as 'easy solution' when it won't necessarily always be easy, nor desired by all parties involved. But if the choice is between you do this extra step or you don't do business with anyone from states that are banning online sales, then what would be the reasonable choice that a vendor is willing to go with?

    We (pro vapers) can say this bill is really about one thing (raising tax revenue) and not about the other (selling to minors), but when the bill's language is explicit with the idea of trying to overcome illegal sales to minors, then why wouldn't we do all we can to address that concern? Especially in a public way to oppose / defeat the rationale behind bill.

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    An easy way around this for online sales is to simply ask for ID. I've done business with an e-tailer that I had to send them a copy of my photo ID (scanned it and emailed it).

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    Ultra Member ECF Veteran Jman8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anybody View Post
    An easy way around this for online sales is to simply ask for ID. I've done business with an e-tailer that I had to send them a copy of my photo ID (scanned it and emailed it).
    I did the same, and just blurred out information that they didn't exactly need to verify age, or present verification of my age. Worked for the vendor.

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    Registered Supplier Bkag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman8 View Post
    Addressing the bolded part.

    If vendor obtains this license, but it is a fake ID, and vendor sells to the person, who is at fault? I'm thinking the person who presented the fake, no?

    So, if that is allowed, then why not have it that for out of state vendors choosing to sell online, this must be part of the transaction? I realize I'm presenting this as 'easy solution' when it won't necessarily always be easy, nor desired by all parties involved. But if the choice is between you do this extra step or you don't do business with anyone from states that are banning online sales, then what would be the reasonable choice that a vendor is willing to go with?

    We (pro vapers) can say this bill is really about one thing (raising tax revenue) and not about the other (selling to minors), but when the bill's language is explicit with the idea of trying to overcome illegal sales to minors, then why wouldn't we do all we can to address that concern? Especially in a public way to oppose / defeat the rationale behind bill.
    Very good point, I will bring that up with the Representative that I am acquainted with and see what he thinks. The issue is, with the way it is written now, you would have to send a photo ID to the retailer before even being able to log onto their site due to the bill saying that an ID must be checked before "Offering to sell" nicotine products to a person.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bkag View Post
    http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/cli...ile=018_01.pdf

    The interpretation I have gotten from a member of the House is that this would effectively ban online sales in Colorado.

    Some "highlights" for you guys

    Under current law, it is illegal to furnish tobacco products to
    persons under 18 years of age. Section 1 of the bill expands the
    prohibition to include all nicotine products.

    18-13-121. Furnishing nicotine products to minors. (1) (a) A person shall not give, sell, distribute, DISPENSE, or offer for sale A NICOTINE PRODUCT to any person who is under eighteen years of age.

    Before GIVING, selling, DISTRIBUTING, DISPENSING, OR OFFERING TO SELL to any AN individual any cigarette or tobacco NICOTINE product, a person shall request from the individual and examine a government-issued photographic identification that establishes that the individual is eighteen years of age or older; except that, in face-to-face transactions, this requirement shall be IS waived if the individual appears older than thirty years of age

    (5) (a) As used in this section, "tobacco "NICOTINE product" means: (I) Any A product that contains nicotine or tobacco or is derived from tobacco and is intended to be ingested or inhaled by or applied to the skin of an individual; or (II) Any AN electronic device that can be used to deliver nicotine to the person inhaling from the device, including but not limited to an electronic cigarette, cigar, cigarillo, or pipe
    Has a Petition/Petitions been started on something like change.org?

    Do you Links to Where and How people can Contact their State Representatives?

    Have Internet Retailers been Contacted so they can put Something on their Website to Alert their Customers?

    Have Local B&M's been Contacted so they can Alert their Walk-In Customers?

    Have you Contacted Groups Like AEMSA and CASSA?
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    How about a skype account, cheap web cam and mike, face to face for original account sign up and id? From then on that account can order.

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    Ultra Member ECF Veteran DrMA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bkag View Post
    I agree with that. The interpretation I have gotten from a member of the legislature is that, effectively, all online sales of e-cigarettes with or without nicotine will not be allowed to be sold to or from Colorado due to the fact that an ID cannot be checked before "offering to sell" the product
    What about verifying a picture ID via Skype, Lync, video calls or any other camera device?

    These legislators still think with an early 20th century view of the world. Let's beat them at their own game using all the technology and connectivity that the 21st century puts at our disposal.

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