IFLS writes article about e-cigs...
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 37
Like Tree120Likes

Thread: IFLS writes article about e-cigs...

  1. #1
    Ultra Member Verified Member
    ECF Veteran
    dragonpuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the river and through the woods, Western NY
    Posts
    1,081

    Default IFLS writes article about e-cigs...

    IFLS (which stands for I ....... Love Science) has become one of the biggest sources of science news on facebook, and has become quite trusted as a source for information. Today I saw that they published an article on e-cigs; here's the broken link :

    http ://www. ifl science .com/health-and-medicine/studies-reveal-health-risks-e-cigarettes

    They basically grabbed one of the most famous headline news studies, mixed it in with one lesser known study, and said that we don't really know much more yet are you kidding me???

    On top of that, the title of the article is misleading, implying that e-cigs are dangerous.

    I've actually become quite frustrated with IFLS more and more lately for having misleading headlines and skewing the interpretation of studies in their articles. This really takes the cake for me - I'm going to write to them and tell them I no longer trust them as an accurate source of information.

    It really burns me because so many people trust big names like this, they need to be more responsible!
    Last edited by dragonpuff; 07-28-2014 at 10:18 PM.
    DC2, LaraC, DrMA and 1 others like this.

    "The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views... which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering." Doctor Who

  2. #2
    Senior Member ECF Veteran
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Toronto, ON Canada
    Posts
    166

    Default

    I just came upon this today and read the full Science News article as well as one of the cited studies that concluded carbonyl compounds in e-cig vapor increase with voltage. I'm glad I stumbled upon it and frankly, I don't think it's misleading at all to suggest they're more dangerous than people think; they're just not as bad as cigarettes, as far as we are aware.

    Definitely reconsidering this hobby. At least, I'm curious to know more.

  3. #3
    Ultra Member Verified Member
    ECF Veteran
    dragonpuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the river and through the woods, Western NY
    Posts
    1,081

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steakjuice View Post
    I just came upon this today and read the full Science News article as well as one of the cited studies that concluded carbonyl compounds in e-cig vapor increase with voltage. I'm glad I stumbled upon it and frankly, I don't think it's misleading at all to suggest they're more dangerous than people think; they're just not as bad as cigarettes, as far as we are aware.

    Definitely reconsidering this hobby. At least, I'm curious to know more.
    I am extremely familiar with the study in question. There was a long thread on it not long ago, I'll try to find it for you.

    We collectively concluded that the conditions on which the study was based was unrealistic, and the consequences they suggest (i.e. formaldehyde inhalation) are equally unrealistic.

    Edit: Found it - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/for...udy-shows.html
    BuGlen, LaraC, DrMA and 2 others like this.

    "The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views... which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering." Doctor Who

  4. #4
    Ultra Member Verified Member
    ECF Veteran
    dragonpuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the river and through the woods, Western NY
    Posts
    1,081

    Default

    This is what I posted to IFLS's wall in response:

    IFLS, I liked you. I used to trust you. But lately I've noticed that many of your stories have misleading, attention-grabbing titles that don't adequately describe the story itself, much to my disappointment when I click on them. I then began to notice that some of the stories themselves are distorting facts, which further muddies my trust in you.

    Finally, today I noticed your story on e-cigarettes, a subject I have been studying rigorously for some time as it directly impacts my life and the lives of many others I know. Sadly, you based the entire story on one headline-grabbing study (which was conducted with unrealistic parameters that need fine-tuning and has yet to be replicated) and one study that poses nothing more than a speculative risk. What's worse, you claim that not much more is known about this, when there are countless other completed studies on the subject that you didn't bother looking up before writing the article.

    IFLS, I no longer trust you please clean up your act and start behaving as a scientist should, seeking evidence and presenting facts. You have a responsibility to those fans who still have trust in you. Thank you.

    "The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views... which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering." Doctor Who

  5. #5
    Senior Member ECF Veteran
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Toronto, ON Canada
    Posts
    166

    Default

    That's not the article. This is what I read:

    sciencenews.
    org/article/health-risks-e-cigarettes-emerge

    One of the cited references:

    ntr.
    oxfordjournals.
    org/content/early/2014/05/14/ntr.ntu078.full

    The Oxford study in particular seems to be based on legitimate tests, however I simply don't have the background to know what other variables could have led to their observations. If you have links to studies that refute the conclusions of the second link in particular, I'd love to read them; the more information we have on this the better.
    Last edited by sonicdsl; 07-29-2014 at 01:00 AM. Reason: Broke links to junk science

  6. #6
    Ultra Member Verified Member
    ECF Veteran
    ClippinWings's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The OC
    Posts
    1,641
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steakjuice View Post
    I just came upon this today and read the full Science News article as well as one of the cited studies that concluded carbonyl compounds in e-cig vapor increase with voltage. I'm glad I stumbled upon it and frankly, I don't think it's misleading at all to suggest they're more dangerous than people think; they're just not as bad as cigarettes, as far as we are aware.

    Definitely reconsidering this hobby. At least, I'm curious to know more.
    I highlighted the important parts... and the reason why this article is bad.



  7. #7
    Ultra Member Verified Member
    ECF Veteran
    dragonpuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the river and through the woods, Western NY
    Posts
    1,081

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steakjuice View Post
    That's not the article. This is what I read:

    sciencenews.
    org/article/health-risks-e-cigarettes-emerge

    One of the cited references:

    ntr.
    oxfordjournals.
    org/content/early/2014/05/14/ntr.ntu078.full

    The Oxford study in particular seems to be based on legitimate tests, however I simply don't have the background to know what other variables could have led to their observations. If you have links to studies that refute the conclusions of the second link in particular, I'd love to read them; the more information we have on this the better.


    That is the exact same study, done by Roswell and published in the Oxford Journal. That Roswell study has really been making the rounds since it was first published this spring; it has been published in many places, and many more people have cited it in articles like the one we were discussing in that thread I posted for you. No one has replicated the study because it is so new that no one has had time to. This is the only e-cig study linking high voltage vaping to increased carbonyl production to date.

    If you read through the thread, you will see me arguing in defense of Roswell, and later conceding my position when a fellow vaper linked a study proving that the levels of formaldehyde they cite in the study are almost impossible to inhale (without the aid of being wrapped up in hundreds of other chemicals like in smoke). Roswell failed to mention that in their report.
    Last edited by sonicdsl; 07-29-2014 at 01:00 AM. Reason: Updated quote of edited post
    aubergine, LaraC, Jman8 and 4 others like this.

    "The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views... which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering." Doctor Who

  8. #8
    Ultra Member Verified Member
    ECF Veteran
    dragonpuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the river and through the woods, Western NY
    Posts
    1,081

    Default

    In case anyone wants to know just how influential these guys are...

    I found this little gem posted to IFLS's wall:
    How bad are amalgam fillings? I have to get a filling and my insurance only covers amalgam.. I've been reading about the mercury vapors released and it's hard to tell if the FDA and EPA are downplaying the effects of it, or the health-trends/conspiracy nuts are exaggerating it.. Is it worth spending more money to get composite resin, and hope it lasts until (hopefully) the new tooth-regenerating treatment becomes available?
    This woman is skeptical of the FDA, EPA, and various news sources, but she trusts the judgement of IFLS implicitly.

    The article on e-cigarettes was posted 3 hours ago and already has 30,000 shares!
    Last edited by dragonpuff; 07-29-2014 at 12:17 AM.
    LaraC, DrMA and Anjaffm like this.

    "The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views... which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering." Doctor Who

  9. #9
    Double Guru Verified Member
    ECF Veteran
    Kent C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    NW Ohio US
    Posts
    20,535
    Blog Entries
    10

    Default

    A bit 'old news' re: carbonyl....

    Conclusions: Vapors from EC contain toxic and carcinogenic carbonyl compounds. Both solvent and battery output voltage significantly affect levels of carbonyl compounds in EC vapors. High-voltage EC may expose users to high levels of carbonyl compounds.

    Where vaping at 4.8V and above gave the worst ratings. I didn't see any specifics but much of the overheating and burnt eliquids came from dry hits on top coils whereas I'm wondering what the results would be vaping at say 3.4-3.7V with bottom coils. Also this study was done with smoking machines.

    Dr. Siegel's blog at the time. Also a quote from Bill G....

    http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.co.u...tte-vapor.html

    And another study on ecigs and indoor air quality:

    Comparison of the effects of e-cigarette vapor... [Inhal Toxicol. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

    CONCLUSIONS:

    For all byproducts measured, electronic cigarettes produce very small exposures relative to tobacco cigarettes. The study indicates no apparent risk to human health from e-cigarette emissions based on the compounds analyzed.

    "Pollutants included VOCs, carbonyls, PAHs, nicotine, TSNAs, and glycols."

  10. #10
    Ultra Member Verified Member
    ECF Veteran
    dragonpuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the river and through the woods, Western NY
    Posts
    1,081

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kent C View Post
    A bit 'old news' re: carbonyl....

    Conclusions: Vapors from EC contain toxic and carcinogenic carbonyl compounds. Both solvent and battery output voltage significantly affect levels of carbonyl compounds in EC vapors. High-voltage EC may expose users to high levels of carbonyl compounds.

    Where vaping at 4.8V and above gave the worst ratings. I didn't see any specifics but much of the overheating and burnt eliquids came from dry hits on top coils whereas I'm wondering what the results would be vaping at say 3.4-3.7V with bottom coils. Also this study was done with smoking machines.

    Dr. Siegel's blog at the time. Also a quote from Bill G....

    http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.co.u...tte-vapor.html

    And another study on ecigs and indoor air quality:

    Comparison of the effects of e-cigarette vapor... [Inhal Toxicol. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

    CONCLUSIONS:

    For all byproducts measured, electronic cigarettes produce very small exposures relative to tobacco cigarettes. The study indicates no apparent risk to human health from e-cigarette emissions based on the compounds analyzed.

    "Pollutants included VOCs, carbonyls, PAHs, nicotine, TSNAs, and glycols."
    Yes, it is old news. Unfortunately, though, ever since this Roswell study came out I keep hearing from non-vapers that "they proved those things are dangerous" and this study is cited in almost every news article I see that wants to show the risks of e-cigs and/or paint them in a bad light. It may be old news to us, but it is still being very widely circulated and is frequently used against us (i.e. many who talk about the study don't even mention that e-cigs generally vary in voltage; that makes it sound like they're all producing plumes of formaldehyde).

    The study did show much lower carbonyl levels for lower voltages, but it would be interesting to see what happens with different coils.

    Thank you for the links they'll help with all these arguments I keep getting myself into...
    Kent C, LaraC and Sundodger like this.

    "The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views... which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering." Doctor Who

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks