Reporter Takes a Cheap Shot at Suppliers of E-Cigs??

[KitP]

I'm hoping to get enough data for a proper followup. When I've got retailers claiming to be suppliers, so little luck contacting the actual manufacturers, and situations of apparent righteous indignation and attacks from retailers whose numbers don't match up with the common numbers seen, it's not an easy situation. The pointers to the web sites of the manufacturers directly simply leaves me with whether those are the same sites that I tried to make contact previously and whether I will get just as silent a response.

I've got retailers who are lower in cost, retailers who are higher in cost, retailers going the company method and doing it well, as well as companies doing it badly. There is very little if any organization in the entire situation. Like I said, it's a product that I'd love to see work, but there seems to be less chance of that in the US itself unless much better organization occurs. Right now, the retailers tend to get accusations even frequently from each other of being nobodies. The only major "company" that I have dug up trying to do things officially is NJoy, however a lot of the community slams them, which in my professional opinion is likely to kill things. I have yet to find any other retailer that is not just reselling imported Chinese product of unknown quality.

If anybody can point me into contact with any retailers who aren't just selling imported and uncontrolled products, I'd love to speak with them. I've been given names, but quite honestly, unless I get enough direct data to do a followup, it's hard to say that it would be worth the research time.

It's one thing to say "My customers are happy" but it's another to have BBB ratings indicating such.
From an end consumer (Not part of this group) viewpoint, given a choice between "$80 with a 30-day money back guarantee, full warranty, 800 number support, and BBB membership" and "$100 with a very limited warranty, long distance support line, and no BBB record", it's impossible to recommend the second based on the information I've been given. Now, by comparison, adding value, reducing cost, or otherwise improving on the $80 item in some way means that I can consider recommending it as a possibility.

The other issue is finding confirmation of of any claims that improve on the other item. Back to the one thing to say the customers are happy, another to have a BBB record saying so.

So, here's hoping.

[nitewriter]

What an interesting article and a great thread!

I fully commend Kit for having the courage to come to us and confront our opinions of the article. I for one, think that was a very brave thing to do. I further commend her for her willingness to do a follow-up article and look forward to it!

Here is one person in the press (Other than TB) trying to get the facts straight. Her last post (before my reply) was at 9:11 pm. Do you think she's on the clock? I'd say she's spending far more time to assure fairness and accuracy for her follow-up article than she's being paid for.

Kudos Kit!

[TribbleTrouble]

I'm hoping to get enough data for a proper followup. When I've got retailers claiming to be suppliers, so little luck contacting the actual manufacturers, and situations of apparent righteous indignation and attacks from retailers whose numbers don't match up with the common numbers seen, it's not an easy situation. The pointers to the web sites of the manufacturers directly simply leaves me with whether those are the same sites that I tried to make contact previously and whether I will get just as silent a response.

I've got retailers who are lower in cost, retailers who are higher in cost, retailers going the company method and doing it well, as well as companies doing it badly. There is very little if any organization in the entire situation. Like I said, it's a product that I'd love to see work, but there seems to be less chance of that in the US itself unless much better organization occurs. Right now, the retailers tend to get accusations even frequently from each other of being nobodies. The only major "company" that I have dug up trying to do things officially is NJoy, however a lot of the community slams them, which in my professional opinion is likely to kill things. I have yet to find any other retailer that is not just reselling imported Chinese product of unknown quality.

If anybody can point me into contact with any retailers who aren't just selling imported and uncontrolled products, I'd love to speak with them. I've been given names, but quite honestly, unless I get enough direct data to do a followup, it's hard to say that it would be worth the research time.

It's one thing to say "My customers are happy" but it's another to have BBB ratings indicating such.
From an end consumer (Not part of this group) viewpoint, given a choice between "$80 with a 30-day money back guarantee, full warranty, 800 number support, and BBB membership" and "$100 with a very limited warranty, long distance support line, and no BBB record", it's impossible to recommend the second based on the information I've been given. Now, by comparison, adding value, reducing cost, or otherwise improving on the $80 item in some way means that I can consider recommending it as a possibility.

The other issue is finding confirmation of of any claims that improve on the other item. Back to the one thing to say the customers are happy, another to have a BBB record saying so.

So, here's hoping.

I think this is a good shout out for all of the suppliers(retailers) to start PM'ing Kit the info that she is looking for. This is a great opportunity for your operations to get some positive pub while at the same time better educating the public about our beloved devices. Fill Kit in on who each of you get your gear and liquid from. I think there are a lot of people on this forum who would like to know a little more about that aspect of it. I know I would.

[Nuck]

I enjoyed the article. It came across as fair and evenhanded and accurately reflected my own short experience as an esmoker.

I look forward to the day I can walk into a mainstream retail outlet and purchase materials that are lab tested and quality controlled and that come with a standard 90 day warranty. I don't even care if I have to pay tax on it.

Reliable industry studies on the health risks would be a nice place to start. Until that day I will experiment, sit back, puff away and enjoy the closer-knit hobby feel of the community.

[deewal]

Sorry to have to ask this but i'm British. What exactly are BBB ratings and what benefit does it give Njoy?
I've just looked at their website and the Penstyle looks to me like a RN4072 or DSE108.
Whatever it is their products including the Carts are still manufactured in China.

[Nuck]

BBB is the Better Business Bureau. It's a registry for consumer complaints against companies and it also provides a mechanism for resolution. With the advent of the internet it really doesn't serve much of a purpose for us net users since it's so damn easy to google a company and find out all the dirt.

[madog]

Sorry to have to ask this but i'm British. What exactly are BBB ratings and what benefit does it give Njoy?

Better Business Bureau

Start With Trust -- Start With BBB

[KitP]

Erp... A few multi-replies...

First off, I am not salaried or on the clock as a reporter. Those days are long gone. Even getting the old $500 for a story is gone. These days we're suffering through minimal pay for stories and then only if the stories "perform well" (Yay for internet metrics). My time is my own, I make a story and hope it eventually performs well enough to pay back the time invested in it. Since this is not my primary income, it's reasonable. I get to work with interesting things and people and hopefully bring a better eye to some situations.

Secondly... *Double-Checks* Yeah, get the reporter the data that -he- needs. *chuckles* Thanks though.

Deewal: The BBB is the Better Business Bureau. It is a voluntary watchdog agency for businesses in the US that is intended for the purpose of building consumer trust. It handles several metrics in keeping records on businesses and also acts as an intermediary for complaints.

A business's rating is generally a good indicator of how well the business performs from a customer standpoint. It also acts as a proper method of sorting out the validity of complaints. While you can find "all the dirt" about a company on the internet, some of that dirt is oft not deserved. The BBB investigates all complaints and comes to a third party decision from information on both sides as to the validity of the complaint as well as the handling of such.

A good fictional example would be of somebody complaining that an internet company is horrible because the company had a five-minute downtime and didn't give them six months of free service because of it. Those kind of blown-out-of-proportion complaints can easily be found on the internet, marring the reputation of an otherwise good company. The BBB accurately decides in cases like that the the complaint is unfounded (I'm sorry... You don't get 6 months of free service for a five minute downtime in a service that you know has no uptime guarantees) and does not cause damage to the rating because of it.

[TribbleTrouble]

Sorry, Dude! I just went off of Nitewriter's "Her" statement. My Bad!

[KitP]

Erk... Notably, also, I can't edit my messages and I hit the wrong button going from quick reply. As I was going to continue...

A BBB rating is a metric of official complaints or lack thereof, and how they are handled. A BBB membership means that unique numbers of customers and other history is given to the BBB. More customers with less complaints and longer history results in a better ranking. It technically is third party confirmation of the quality of a business with more weight than "My customers are happy".

NJoy did confirm that all of its product is manufactured in China. The boxes even clearly state that. "Made in China, Tested and Distributed in the USA". Their claim was that there are zero manufactories for E-Cigarettes in the US. My records are in the form of a phone call and I don't have the recording handy, but they either have purchased factory space or something similar, however in summary, they have US oversight in the Chinese factory. The paint on the battery bears their brand mark, but beyond that, it's identical in physical specifications to a DSE103. There is easy confirmation that DSE103 carts will physically fit the device. Given that being the case, I'd agree that the NCig style is likely physically identical to a DSE model as well.

So the folks there basically state that they are taking direct oversight over the manufacturing process to increase the quality, the physical product is produced with their specific labeling, in their specific boxes, and re-tested mechanically to try to prevent DOA's. They state they have the Chinese juice creating special mixes for them and they also claim to be the largest purchaser of juice outside China from the Chinese juice maker.

They claim they are working with the government oversight agencies in the US to gain approval as well. They have reports of an independent lab analysis of their juice though it's a composition analysis that refers to the fact that the safety and other studies of all components in the juice are readily available.

All of this information does not go into product reviews because that would be focusing more on the claims of the company than the performance of the product. All of the above information here is what I have been told by them and I have no easy way again to confirm or deny it, so it doesn't go into the article.