Blood test lab results for nicotine levels!!!

[Drunkwaco]

Okay, you guys and gals can pat yourself on the back all you want, but I'm still not buying it.

It appears as if you have to chain vap the strongest liquid out there to get your nicotine level up to 2 mg nicotine gum. That sounds a whole lot more like a smoking cessation program rather then a smoking replacement program. It's the real achilles heal of e-cigs.

It would also point to a high rate of failure. It's just not enough nicotine to be a good long term replacement for cigarettes.

Try not to take this the wrong way, though you already have, I'm not against e-cigs. I just don't think it's a good smoking replacement for the masses. The average Jane and Joe just doesn't have the time to suck on an e-cig for 8 hours a day to try and keep there nicotine levels up to acceptable levels. Most people actually have to work for a living.

If anyone actually took the time to read the link I posted above you can see that I'm not alone in this. Until the manufactures can make some liquid that has a much higher absorption rate e-cigs are doomed to a second rate niche product. Not-quite-ready-for-prime-time. It's very easy to cut back on nicotine if that's what you want to do, just cut your nicotine level or use it less often. Unfortunately, with the current state of the art in e-cigs, you can't push it any higher if need be.

I think the e-liquid manufactures need to get on the ball and give the rest of us what is needed.

Ok your right in one aspect. This isn't the new we are going to take to the courts to win the battle. But i know that i don't vape non stop i have a job and yes i smoke at my desk but i have to keep it on the D/L. We've known for years that the addiction to smoking was at least 90% mental. nic is just that 8-10% that keeps us feeling good and then feeling bad when it get's low. not everyone has quit and i believe personally 90% of the people that Failed to quit tobacco is cause they were using the wrong equipment. getting suckered in to low end small pieces when they were going to need a screwdriver or at least a 510 so they can vape for 10 mins then go back to work for 3 hours. at least the reason i think e-cigs have worked for most of us is cause it covers that 90% part. The mental part that we could feel something go in our thoats fill us up and we would feel good by the time we exhaled. Even thou my PV isn't giving me near as much nic as tobacco was i still feel that. and it's almost all in my head where it should be.
I'm very pleased by the blood work makes me feel good for us all. We are healthier and most of us are not sacrificing anything to be this way. That's a win in my book

[irbf]

I'd call this great news! My PV/alternative is back to being a PV/alternative not a cessation drug. So like toothpics, gum, an tons of iced tea.....

[TheIllustratedMan]

I'm always confused by absorption claims. People either cite 95 - 99% nicotine absorption or 1/10th that of a cigarette. Both groups point the the Health New Zealand report. I just went back and read it (again!). In section 4.1, they claim 99% absorption, but I can't tell if this is assumed or scientifically verified. In section 4.3, they calculate that 15 puffs ("one cigarette"'s worth) of a 16mg cartridge results in an intake of 1/5th the nicotine one would get from a cigarette.
Obviously, based on your tests, the nicotine levels in the bloodstream are much lower than expected for an active smoker. Does this mean that the HNZ report is wrong, they were just assuming 99% absorption for the purposes of their chart, or that the nicotine is absorbed and metabolized differently than from a cigarette?

[Tom09]

I'm always confused by absorption claims. People either cite 95 - 99% nicotine absorption or 1/10th that of a cigarette. Both groups point the the Health New Zealand report. I just went back and read it (again!). In section 4.1, they claim 99% absorption, but I can't tell if this is assumed or scientifically verified. In section 4.3, they calculate that 15 puffs ("one cigarette"'s worth) of a 16mg cartridge results in an intake of 1/5th the nicotine one would get from a cigarette.
Obviously, based on your tests, the nicotine levels in the bloodstream are much lower than expected for an active smoker. Does this mean that the HNZ report is wrong, they were just assuming 99% absorption for the purposes of their chart, or that the nicotine is absorbed and metabolized differently than from a cigarette?

That "98% nicotine absorption" figure had been determined for combustion cigarette smoke. In his preliminary Ruyan reports, Laugesen (Health NZ) simply assumed that it would just be the same for e-cig vapor. However, the same study group later reported new data on blood nicotine levels (some links should be somewhere in that thread). Those actual results indicate that uptake of nicotine is less effective than had been previously anticipated. Bottom line, the "98% absorption" figure does not necessarily hold true for vaping.

[Stubby]

Ok your right in one aspect. This isn't the new we are going to take to the courts to win the battle. But i know that i don't vape non stop i have a job and yes i smoke at my desk but i have to keep it on the D/L. We've known for years that the addiction to smoking was at least 90% mental. nic is just that 8-10% that keeps us feeling good and then feeling bad when it get's low. not everyone has quit and i believe personally 90% of the people that Failed to quit tobacco is cause they were using the wrong equipment. getting suckered in to low end small pieces when they were going to need a screwdriver or at least a 510 so they can vape for 10 mins then go back to work for 3 hours. at least the reason i think e-cigs have worked for most of us is cause it covers that 90% part. The mental part that we could feel something go in our thoats fill us up and we would feel good by the time we exhaled. Even thou my PV isn't giving me near as much nic as tobacco was i still feel that. and it's almost all in my head where it should be.
I'm very pleased by the blood work makes me feel good for us all. We are healthier and most of us are not sacrificing anything to be this way. That's a win in my book

Okay I may have been a bit over the top in my last post. But I still stand by the basic premise that because of the low nicotine numbers e-cigs are not going to work for a lot of people. There is a down-side to this. It's a win for those that can get by with less, for others it isn't.

The whole idea of nicotine addiction being 90% mental is also suspect. Just look at the many thousands (actually hundreds of thousands in Sweden) who have quit cigarettes using snus. No throat hit, no smoke/vaper, but a good hit of nicotine equal to cigarettes.

If you can't even acknowledge a downside to the low nicotine numbers you are doing no service to those of us that have had problems with it. Some people on this forum are starting to sound a whole lot like the anti nicotine/smoking crowd.

[Kelemvor]

i think you are wrong, until march i was a very heavychainsmoker, over 50 Mboros per day. lately more, i don't really count since i rolled my own cigs.

the e-cig did get me of them in 3 weeks. its not just the nic thats clear for me, most is the smoking ritual. the nic i get from the e-cig is enough to calm me down, even with 18mg.

i accidentially was at work with 0-liquid in my pen depots and got very angry against my fellow workers. then i noticed my fault, got a fresh cart and calmed down again.

the amount the devices deliver is sufficient.

i used the nicorette things, gums and they all failed, guess why ?

[happily]

Okay I may have been a bit over the top in my last post. But I still stand by the basic premise that because of the low nicotine numbers e-cigs are not going to work for a lot of people. There is a down-side to this. It's a win for those that can get by with less, for others it isn't.

The whole idea of nicotine addiction being 90% mental is also suspect. Just look at the many thousands (actually hundreds of thousands in Sweden) who have quit cigarettes using snus. No throat hit, no smoke/vaper, but a good hit of nicotine equal to cigarettes.

If you can't even acknowledge a downside to the low nicotine numbers you are doing no service to those of us that have had problems with it. Some people on this forum are starting to sound a whole lot like the anti nicotine/smoking crowd.

No one's saying there isn't a down side, but knowledge is power and you could benefit from the knowledge. If the e'cigs don't do it for everyone then that is for them to deal with. Look at it this way if the nicotine levels were very high and you still were'nt relieved then you would have nowhere to go, but the fact that they are very low, means you have options to deal with your cravings.

also these numbers substantiate that 90% of smoking addiction is mental or habit for those of us who have quit. I will say that everyone needs something different and that is the reason e-cigs don't work for everyone

Hook-ed on p-honixs do not work fer every1 either

[RIMP]

Some people WILL beat a dead horse I'm quite happy at 18-24mg and smoked 1- 1 1/2 packs a day. Will probably reduce the level later I think the idea of less nic in my blood is a good thing I'd be concerned if it was equal to or higher than anal logs





RIMP

[Kate51]

Stubby, for some reason an awful lot of people have been able to stop cigarettes totally, many are now working their way to 0 nic, and very comfortably, by the way. It all depends on your frame of mind and total knowledge of the thing we're all trying to get away from, and that's nicotine absorbtion through combustion. If a person's goal is not to stop nicotine use but use it safer, the e-cig has for sure proven itself to be useful in that regard. I'm sold on my new standard of life. It's good!

[DaBrat]

Not quite sure why this would be good news, or even unexpected. It just another piece of evidence that shows how e-cigs are not a very good nicotine delivery device. From the research that has been done, puff for puff, e-cigs deliver about 1/10 the nicotine of analogs. Except for the cotinine your blood work shows it. it. Doing 3 mm a day of 36 mg liquid is a whole lot of vaping. And that’s about the strongest liquid out there.

That may work for some people but for others it’s easy to see how e-cigs are not the answer to analogs.

So explain again why this is good news.

Uh probably late on this but here goes anyway!!!!

You just made all the points that closes the door in the FDA's face PLUS the fact that most ecig users get off analogs if they choose. The key word here is choice.

You basically just said that the ecig is NOT an effective delivery device for this particular drug which is what the FDA is harping on.

It is not an answer to analogs, we were not trying to pollute our bodies as much as analogs.. so you made that point. So they cannot be more dangerous.

Now do you see why it is good news.... Smokers stop smoking, its not a drug delivery device and it is not a analog copy in a different form!!

Whooo Hooo!!!

You also made a point that you would 'have to chain vape the strongest liquid out there'.. LOL!! So can you explain how all us vapers are no longer smokers? That is the beauty of the device!!!

Nothing short of death itself could have forced me to put down an analog (And I tried EVERYTHING).. that is until now and I am vaping 18 mg.... check out my sig.... do you know how many Newports that is? How much nic and toxins....

Doing the happy dance!!!!